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Author | Topic: Questions Creationists Never Answer | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
olletrap Junior Member (Idle past 5676 days) Posts: 23 From: Mass, USA Joined: |
Sorry for misunderstanding the question. Again, I am not here to defend the flood as a certainty the way that we understand it. clearly it comes down from the epic of Gilgamesh and probably earlier stories. The stories meaning is that the world has been destroyed because it was evil, and a remnant was saved to repopulate it.
That I can believe. There are many philosophies that say that the earth has been destroyed and rebuilt many times. If I were to discover that there was no Noah, it would have no affect on my beliefs. There are just as many problems with the story of Adam and Eve or Cain and Able... but these are the oldest stories on earth. I think we need to concentrate on the gist of them, not the details. Edited by olletrap, : spelling
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wardog25 Member (Idle past 5581 days) Posts: 37 Joined: |
quote: I think your real problem is that you want a very specific answer for something that was not given as specific. What if I decided that I wasn't going to believe in Aristotle until I knew his shoe size and eye color? From all the posts on here, you can see there is definitely a broad definition for "kind". Can you ever reduce it down so much that we could classify every living thing according to that system? Of course not. Not enough information is given. So why is this so troubling? There are many things about history that we just can't know. If you can give me Julius Caesar's exact weight when he was 12 years old, I'll give you an exact definition of "kind".
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2323 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
wardog25 writes:
That is indeed the problem
I think your real problem is that you want a very specific answer for something that was not given as specific. What if I decided that I wasn't going to believe in Aristotle until I knew his shoe size and eye color?
What does this have to do with anything? The reason we want to know what kind means is so we can see if all kinds could've fit on the ark.
From all the posts on here, you can see there is definitely a broad definition for "kind". Can you ever reduce it down so much that we could classify every living thing according to that system? Of course not. Not enough information is given.
Which is the problem if you want to say the flood story is true.
So why is this so troubling? There are many things about history that we just can't know. If you can give me Julius Caesar's exact weight when he was 12 years old, I'll give you an exact definition of "kind".
What's troubling is the fact that people keep claiming the flood story is true, yet when asked for evidence can produce NONE. Oh, and Caesar's weight when he was twelve was 35,67 Kg. Edited by Huntard, : Changed the weight a bit, this one's correct though! I hunt for the truth
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onifre Member (Idle past 2979 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
So why is this so troubling? There are many things about history that we just can't know. Its troubling because its claimed as factual. "Kind" is not definable by science standards, which is the standard used to categorize animals. In other words, is "kind" refering to for example humans, or primates, or mammals, or vertibrates etc, etc?
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wardog25 Member (Idle past 5581 days) Posts: 37 Joined: |
But that was my point entirely. There are many things from history that aren't deeply specific. That doesn't mean they aren't factual.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2979 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
There are many things from history that aren't deeply specific. That doesn't mean they aren't factual. Thus our questions. If things in history are not understood there is a process of inquiry that takes place, we are merely applying that process to the Ark/Gilagamesh story. All observable evidence from a geological stand point, if the date for the Flood was within the last 10,000 years, indicate that there was no global flood. Further more, if creation of ALL species takes place at a single moment in time then that would have to be one HUGE Ark, unless you define "kind" as say vertebrates. Then you can reduce the size of the Ark perhaps, and after the flood evolution from vertebrates takes place and the story starts to make sense. However, there is the enormous problem of Noah being human before vetebrates evolve. I think the point of the OP is to expose the Ark story as nothing more than a folkloric tale. If we broke down each individual aspect of the story (i.e. Time line, geological dating, size of the Ark) we could see the problems with it. "All great truths begin as blasphemies" "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4217 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
But that was my point entirely. There are many things from history that aren't deeply specific. That doesn't mean they aren't factual. The point is that one must separate "the wheat from the shaft."When there are questions about the validity of a historical story, then one must examine the evidence pro & con to the validity. It may not be possible to get a fully accurate account, but one can determine whether there is evidence as to such or not. There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
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terry107 Junior Member (Idle past 3834 days) Posts: 5 From: sacramento ca Joined: |
The ancient Bretons created mega monuments in various forms and the landscape of Brittany contains natural rock, menhirs, dolmens etc. Among the ancient forms whichagain are thought to have been created by the Pagan Celtics ---or even older civilizations.
among these forms are clear representations of dinosaurs--impossible according to Darwin but in line with the Bible and creation. So...?Why continue to believe Darwin when everything that it predicts is wrong. http://s8int.com/phile/dinolit83.html
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4217 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
It would take a vigorous imagination to see "dinosaurs" inthe scultures at the site you posted. Even if they did resemble dinos it would not mean that the sculptors ever saw one. Dinosaurs resemble lizards which would possibly existed with the sculptors. These sculptures in no way suggest that dinsaurs & humans existed at the same time.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
The ancient Bretons created mega monuments in various forms and the landscape of Brittany contains natural rock, menhirs, dolmens etc. Among the ancient forms whichagain are thought to have been created by the Pagan Celtics ---or even older civilizations. among these forms are clear representations of dinosaurs--impossible according to Darwin but in line with the Bible and creation. So...? Why continue to believe Darwin when everything that it predicts is wrong. Welcome. But you'll have to do better than that. You are wrong in several respects. So you think dinosaurs were cavorting about in early historic times, eh? And that people were creating representations of them in stone? Where are the bones? Archaeologists (myself included) have been poking around and some of us have found mammoth and mastodon bones, as well as bones of other extinct fauna. They are literally all over the place in the western US, where I work. What are not present are dinosaur bones. Given the size of most of the dinosaurs, you'd think at least a few would have shown up in nearly 200 years of archaeology. But they haven't been found. To find dinosaur bones (actually fossils) you have to look in geological strata that are 65 million years old or older. And everything the theory of evolution predicts is wrong? Under what rock have you been hiding? There are many accurate predictions stemming from the theory of evolution. I'll provide just one to show that your statement is incorrect:
Perhaps you shouldn't do your research on creationist websites. When it comes to science, they tend to lie and relying on them will just make you look silly. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 864 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
terry107 writes: The ancient Bretons created mega monuments in various forms and the landscape of Brittany contains natural rock, menhirs, dolmens etc. Among the ancient forms whichagain are thought to have been created by the Pagan Celtics ---or even older civilizations. among these forms are clear representations of dinosaurs--impossible according to Darwin but in line with the Bible and creation. So...?Why continue to believe Darwin when everything that it predicts is wrong. Welcome to EvC terry107. Having viewed your source, most would refer to your 'evidence' as a classic example of Pareidolia. I must say that you are going to have to do better than seeing Jesus or any dinosaurs in a tortilla, grilled cheese sandwich, or even rock formation in order to topple all workable conclusions from natural science developed over the last 200 years. In fact you are even going to run into some trouble with psychologists, sociologists and dare I say, the majority of theologians. Edited by anglagard, : add the term workable, after all there are some cranks and quacks about, however rare and disowned, even in something as self-regulating as the natural sciences. Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2323 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Hello terry107 and welcome to EvC
terry107 writes:
First of all, those rocks to me look NOTHING like dinosaurs, so please try again. The ancient Bretons created mega monuments in various forms and the landscape of Brittany contains natural rock, menhirs, dolmens etc. Among the ancient forms whichagain are thought to have been created by the Pagan Celtics ---or even older civilizations. among these forms are clear representations of dinosaurs--impossible according to Darwin but in line with the Bible and creation. So...?Why continue to believe Darwin when everything that it predicts is wrong. http://s8int.com/phile/dinolit83.html Second, Evolutionary theory has been EXTREMELY accurate in its predictions, so, sorry, but you'll have to try again there too. I hunt for the truth
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
Man you really have a point! The second picture however is obviously a human pelvis, no?
It really, really reminds me of a human pelvis and I should know because I have one. Obviously neolithic carved a pelvis out of stone. Straw clutching bullshit. When you look up at the night sky do you really see a bear? No; you don't. What you have here is a collection of things that look like things with no evidence of anything other than natural forces at work.
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3671 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
among these forms are clear representations of dinosaurs quote: Agh, I think I'm dying... Must keep this quiet - if the creationists all get ahold of this smoking gun, we're doomed! Doomed, I tell you...
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Percy Member Posts: 22502 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
About this being a Tyrannosaurus rex:
I think it's been misinterpreted. I can see how they made the mistake, but clearly it's a hadrosaur. --Percy
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