Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Not reading God's Word right is just wrong. No talking snakes!
Logic
Member (Idle past 5014 days)
Posts: 31
From: Australia
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 16 of 157 (486702)
10-23-2008 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Greatest I am
10-23-2008 10:50 AM


Greatest I am,
I think your missing the point, as we advance scientifically as a species more and more philosophy gets replaced by science. Basically philosophy is just a place holder for what is yet to be explained. If you truly want to find god, stop following a book written by un-educated men of the past who believed the world was flat. Look into the future of what we know of science now, look at what is known about the natural world around you and then try to form your ideas of god. Stop being one of many sheep and actually look for god’s word in nature, maybe the god you’re searching for isn't the god you want to find.
I'm not sure if I can explain this to you in any other way. Just know that what you believe to be god now might become science of tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Greatest I am, posted 10-23-2008 10:50 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Greatest I am, posted 10-23-2008 9:57 PM Logic has not replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 17 of 157 (486711)
10-23-2008 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Greatest I am
10-22-2008 8:43 AM


At the time of the writings of scripture, those who directed scribes were also poets and song writers.
The idea of using a talking snake is a message to readers that what follows must be taken with a grain of salt because it is based on an impossible beginning.
really? on what grounds do you make this assumption?
when you have people who believe that drizzling birds blood on a person suffering from leprosy will cure them. what logic are you using to think they wouldn't believe other nonsense?
That is also why they emphasize WORD, that the reader is to look for the true meaning of the words given.
where does it say the bible is gods word? jesus is called the word, but thats just a translation of logos.
It should be read an archetypal rendition of a best guess for man”s beginnings, in terms of morals sense. A term that requires knowledge of good and evil. A sense we all cherish in ourselves and would not give up.
enforcing a modern belief on bronze-age men is a bad idea!
the only reason to do what you suggest is because accepting what the bible says 100% makes you look insane.
is there something wrong with people believing what it said thousands of years ago are just wrong now?
In conclusion, to read scripture literally without knowing the true context and idioms of the original words and language forces one to truly believe in the impossible and unnatural. The Bible begins with a talking serpent and ends with ten headed monster. A clear indication from the compilers of scripture to not take the Bible literally.
this is your conclusion? i'd say you need to read scripture with the thought in your mind that these are people with no knowledge of how the world works, not what you claim.
people thousands of years ago believed in all kinds of crazy things, you can't just say "well they didn't really mean what they did!"

"no intelligent agent who is strictly physical could have presided over the origin of the universe or the origin of life." - William Dembski

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2008 8:43 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Greatest I am, posted 10-23-2008 10:10 PM ReverendDG has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 18 of 157 (486715)
10-23-2008 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Logic
10-23-2008 7:05 PM


Logic
You forget that philosophy, like religions offer a way of life along with the consumer goods.
I have found God and He looks nothing like the loser of most scriptural interpretations. I have no idea where you would get such a notion.
The first God was a man. The last God will be as well. It may well be your scientist but I vote for a generalist.
Let’s hope it happens soon.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Logic, posted 10-23-2008 7:05 PM Logic has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 19 of 157 (486716)
10-23-2008 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by ReverendDG
10-23-2008 8:38 PM


ReverendDG
The introduction of any fantasy item to a narrative, changes it from whatever it was meant to be, to a fantasy.
The most serious speaker will lose respect if he, on occasion, confers with a talking pet.
If they wanted serious respect then they would have left the snake crawl quietly.
Unfortunately, many read the Bible as the WORD of God. They are misguided.
The Bible is whatever Constantine wanted to pay for. He paid the bills. It is his.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by ReverendDG, posted 10-23-2008 8:38 PM ReverendDG has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by ReverendDG, posted 11-16-2008 7:32 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Bailey
Member (Idle past 4369 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 20 of 157 (486913)
10-25-2008 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Greatest I am
10-22-2008 8:43 AM


It is debatably the most available collection of scriptures dating from antiquity authored by arguably the most God loving and fearing men on the planet.
The bible should be read with an open heart and mind, like other literature, if anything relevant is to be gleamed from its pages ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2008 8:43 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Greatest I am, posted 10-25-2008 11:27 PM Bailey has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 21 of 157 (486946)
10-25-2008 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Bailey
10-25-2008 1:58 PM


Bailey
What is debatable?
Talking snakes?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Bailey, posted 10-25-2008 1:58 PM Bailey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Bailey, posted 10-26-2008 3:44 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Bailey
Member (Idle past 4369 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 22 of 157 (486987)
10-26-2008 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Greatest I am
10-25-2008 11:27 PM


Talking snakes are not debatable, nor integral. It could have been another man/fox/nephilm/rabbit saying the words and the same outcome would still have prevailed God willing. Eve does not hear Gods command concerning the "forbidden" tree directly, and Adam is not told what he is eating ... destiny is a fickle fitch.
The point may be that God will always warn you that the stove is hot, and he will always allow you to touch a hot stove if you'd rather not take His Word for it ... it appears He still operates within these parameters.
The Genesis account introduces the root essence of man and his spirit, and begs the question - how can something that looks soooo good be that bad?
Man is naive to the arts, laws, and governing principles that would shortly emerge and envelope his existence. Like the one whom's image he was modeled after, he does what is good instinctively. He has not yet learned of the art of war, etc ... he's happy to be naked. There is nothing in the fields yet that will snag his private bits ....
He is happy to exercise his untainted knowledge of good while managing the thornless & thistless garden, assigning names to a plethora of beast, birds, and livestock ...
It may seem, on the surface, that Adam and his descendants would have been better off without contending with the arts of war, deceit, etc., but it proves false, or God is a hypocrite.
Parameters in the story are set to substantiate the claim that man may have pursued this road of goodness that would become the sum of his decisions had a, seemingly random, outside force not influenced his path.
He may have eaten from the other half of the duality represented along the way, the Tree of Life, and "become like" God beholding the properties accociated with immortality.
One must note he was free to eat from this tree and attain immortality all along, providing he make one sacrafice. He must forgo the knowledge of evil.
Man would have to do without all of the natural, corresponding processess of differentiation stemming from the relativity introduced with this new form of knowledge.
We can eliminate the idea that God fears man becoming like him.
Firstly, as man is created in Gods image from the onset.
Why would omnipotent beings create a "man" after their own image if they were afraid of the "man" being like them?
Secondly, the ascertainment of immortality should certainly constitute an increase in similarity to God, as opposed to a seemingly arbitrary 900 year lifespan, or a potentially directly purposed 120 years.
We are left with a different question then whether or not snakes could ever talk or if we should believe such nonsense, or whether or not God is afraid of the day and the man that will "become like" Him ...
Why does God not desire to have the knowledge of evil imparted to and permeating his creation eternally ?
Why does God go to any measure to prevent a man with the raw knowledge of evil from becoming immortal ? What is the fuss ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Greatest I am, posted 10-25-2008 11:27 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Greatest I am, posted 10-26-2008 6:15 PM Bailey has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 23 of 157 (486995)
10-26-2008 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Bailey
10-26-2008 3:44 PM


Don't know.
if man has always been the same then it stands to reason that it is God's standards that have changed, not mans.
We are the way we should be, if not then some pray to an incompetent God.
One who cannot create perfect souls and natures.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Bailey, posted 10-26-2008 3:44 PM Bailey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Bailey, posted 10-27-2008 4:06 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Bailey
Member (Idle past 4369 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 24 of 157 (487088)
10-27-2008 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Greatest I am
10-26-2008 6:15 PM


GIA writes:
if man has always been the same then it stands to reason that it is God's standards that have changed, not mans.
Yet if man has changed, does it stand to reason that it is God's standards that have not?
We can observe man's changes evidentially - the latter we can only speculate to a degree.
We are the way we should be, if not then some pray to an incompetent God.
One who cannot create perfect souls and natures.
With slight amendment I find this agreeable.
We are the way we should be during every current moment located within time or God is surely a hypocrite ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Greatest I am, posted 10-26-2008 6:15 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Greatest I am, posted 10-27-2008 5:26 PM Bailey has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 25 of 157 (487105)
10-27-2008 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Bailey
10-27-2008 4:06 PM


Bailey
I agree with your last statement but where have you "observe man's changes evidentially". I see no change over the last 2-3000 yrs.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Bailey, posted 10-27-2008 4:06 PM Bailey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Bailey, posted 10-27-2008 6:33 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Bailey
Member (Idle past 4369 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 26 of 157 (487117)
10-27-2008 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Greatest I am
10-27-2008 5:26 PM


GIA writes:
I see no change over the last 2-3000 yrs.
Man has changed much throughout the milleniums, tho motivated by his own ends, so the changes, seem irrelevant.
Unless they can derail impending doom, even the greateast technological advancements seem petty throughout the ages.
When man's motivation changes gears, there may be a more observable change regarding our current situation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Greatest I am, posted 10-27-2008 5:26 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Greatest I am, posted 11-16-2008 8:53 PM Bailey has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 27 of 157 (487665)
11-03-2008 7:00 AM


The least of my problems
A talking snake Genesis is not that big of a problem to me. It might be the least of the things which concern me.
Many of the unusual or miraculous things in the Bible occur in twos. Many times there is at least one other corresponding event. It is as if the Author of the Bible was saying "That's right. You heard me right the first time. And now I'll say something similiar."
You have talking animals in twos - the serpent in Genesis and Balaam's talking donkey in the book of Numbers.
You have Joshua's long day and the sundial moving backwards for Hezekiah.
You have Moses parting the Red Sea so the Hebrews can cross. And you have the Levitical priests stopping the flow of the Jordon river so the people can cross on dry ground.
There are other exampls of double mentions of miracles.
Now I can understand that, if God wanted to communicate to humans that something terribly foriegn to a human being is responsible for the deception of humans beings, ie. a Satanic spiritual being or fallen angel, He could communicate this by having a serpent animal do its bidding somehow.
I must admit that I do not understand why Eve was not surprised by the beast speaking. But I put that on the back burner. We are not always told everything in the Bible. We are told what is most important to our salvation. The Bible leaves some unkowns and hardly ever elaborates anything soely for the purpose of tickling our curiosity.
So I accept a speaking serpent acting in some way as Satan's agent or in some way strongly utilized by Satan if not Satan himself See (Rev. 12:9)
This is the beginning of man's world and of mankind. The fact that the world has its origin in the divine and miraculous causes me not to be too surprised that spiritual opposition to God also took on a miraculous appearance.
When Moses was commanded to do miracles before Pharoah, Pharoah's servants competed with him through their occult arts inspired by Satan.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 28 of 157 (488754)
11-16-2008 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Greatest I am
10-23-2008 10:10 PM


The introduction of any fantasy item to a narrative, changes it from whatever it was meant to be, to a fantasy.
to you maybe, but people thousands of years ago didn't separate "fantasy" from reality that way
The most serious speaker will lose respect if he, on occasion, confers with a talking pet.
prove this, this sounds too modernistic to be true
If they wanted serious respect then they would have left the snake crawl quietly.
serious respect from who? you? i hardly find you an expert on people from 3000 years ago.
the fact is people believed in all kinds of crazy things, trying to twist it to fit with your beliefs is just wrong
Unfortunately, many read the Bible as the WORD of God. They are misguided.
yes and so what?
is it any better than trying to revision the text so people don't seem so foolish?

"no intelligent agent who is strictly physical could have presided over the origin of the universe or the origin of life." - William Dembski

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Greatest I am, posted 10-23-2008 10:10 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Greatest I am, posted 11-16-2008 8:56 PM ReverendDG has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 29 of 157 (488760)
11-16-2008 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Bailey
10-27-2008 6:33 PM


jaywill
I guess that you do not see a danger in turning the Bible into a fairy tale. That is where many are classing it now. you exacerbate the problem.
Put away your toys of children.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Bailey, posted 10-27-2008 6:33 PM Bailey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by jaywill, posted 11-17-2008 11:12 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 30 of 157 (488761)
11-16-2008 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by ReverendDG
11-16-2008 7:32 PM


ReverendDG
Christianity may have to if they want to survive.
The world id getting smarter.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by ReverendDG, posted 11-16-2008 7:32 PM ReverendDG has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024