Evolutionary idiocy (More or less standard dogma)?

I'LL OFFER EVIDENCE, BUT WHERE?ADM MADE CLEAR EVANGELISM ISN'T FOR THIS THREAD. I LIKE TO KEEP THE RULES. MY LAST POST SIMPLY IDENTIFIED A THEOLOGICAL POSITION, A SORT OF MANIFESTO. I'LL GO ANYWHERE YOU TRANSFER THE DISCUSSION, WOULD LIKE TO START AFRESH.MY FORMAL EDUCATION GOES BACK OVER 50 YEARS & I'VE NOT USED ALL OF IT. THE FIELDS UNDER CONSIDERATION HAVE SEEN MUCH CHANGE/DEVELOPMENT/
MODIFICATION, OF SOME OF WHICH I'M NOT AWARE.I MAY BE OUT-OF-DATE, OR WRONG, BUT I'LL NOT BE DISHONEST, NOR TWIST CITATIONS.DISCUSSION RULES:THE HEARER IS KING, YOU DECIDE IF "EVIDENCE" IS VALID"THUS SAITH THE LORD" ISN'T PROOF IN ITSELF.CHALLENGE IS WELCOME, BUT NOT RIDICULE. I'VE BEEN TO 100,000 DOORS, AM COMFORTABLE WITH DISAGREEMENT, LEAVE WHEN ACRIMONY COMMENCES.
TRUE CHRISTIANITY IS CONSIDERATE AS WELL AS EVANGELICAL.I NEED TO CITE AUTHORITIES, SINCE I'M NOT A UNIVERSAL EXPERT.
YOU DECIDE IF THE AUTHORITY(S) ARE ADMISSABLE. I CAN'T PRESENT CONVINCING ARGUMENTS ON JUST MY SAY-SO.PLEASE SIGNAL IF EVIDENCE IS SATISFACTORY ON A POINT. TO AGREE ON ONE CONCEPT ISN'T SURRENDER. THIS ISN'T A CONTEST WITH WINNERS & LOSERSFIRST ON THE MENU IS "FULFILLED PROPHECY AS CONFIRMATION OF SCRIPTURE". OK?CHEMSCIENCE

Hello again Chemscience. Well, since this is the cience part of the forums, I wouldn't really know a better place to provide evidence then here. That's cause it isn't science. Good, then there is no problem presenting evidence here. A philosophical argument? Well....That would be best placed in one of the "social and religious issues" part I guess. If you really have evidence, it can be presented here. If you have a Philosophical argument, start a new thread in the "proposed new topics" Board and outline it there, it will be placed in the correct forum by an admin. Of course, we're here to point you in the right direction. Good, I won't either. Well....That's not completely how science works, it will all to soon become an argument from personal incredulity. "Because I can't believe that, it must be false" I try not to argue like that, since it gets you nowhere. "truth" can only be determined by supporting evidence. I rarely ridicule people in debates, that would be ad hominem attacks, and those are not valid arguments. Unless they REALLY ask for it, I'll not ridicule anyone. I may make a poor attempt at humour, but that's merely intended for a laugh. Neither am I. Yet JUST citing an authority is not a valid argument. I could cite the pope, who says that evolution is true, and not a threat to Christianity. Would you accept that argument? Cite EVIDENCE, and there will be NO problem. You can cite an authority and then point to the evidence he had to make the claim he did, there's nothing wrong with that, but just a bare quote is NOT evidence of anything. Oh I will where I can. This goes for you as well. If we are truly open to the evidence, we'll all be winners. Fine with me. Though if I may, I do think I can already spot a flaw there. If one part of the bible is true, does that make ALL of it true?One final statement I think is in place here. I am not telling you your faith is wrong. Faith is NEVER wrong. I am however objecting to people saying they are using science to "prove" god (who should be take on faith ALONE) when there is NO evidence for it.Oh, and please turn off your caps lock key, it looks like shouting over the internet, and is not very pleasant to read.

---

I hunt for the truth

Just a suggestion, "Fulfilled Prophecy" looks like a different topic from the ridiculous list of so-called "Evolutionary Idiocy". The Admins would probably be much happier if a new topic was proposed to discuss whichever example of "fulfilled prophecy" you have in mind.
(Although it should be pointed out that there have been past topics on allegedly fulfilled prophecies - and none have come up with anything impressive).

Hi chemscience,Why don't we make this easier for you than your 20 problems with evolution, that didn't deal with anything about evolution by the way.Evolution is a change in hereditary traits...where do you see a problem with that? This would be off topic in this thread, there is however a thread dedicated to this.The objective for you would be to show us where exactly does the Theory of Evolution fail? You claimed it was a bogus theory, Huntard started a thread just for you to prove what you claim,, a few scientist already came forth to help you in the areas where you were making a mistake, so if you'd like to continue the debate you should have no shortage of people who will help.There is no hostility towards you, but understand that when you visit a forum like this where so many scientist, and science students, are posting, making the claim "evolution is wrong" triggers people to get on the defensive for what they know to be correct.Hope you stay on, at the very least you will learn a whole lot that you may not have known.--Oni

---

"All great truths begin as blasphemies""I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

SO WHERE DO WE START, ON WHICH THREAD?OOPS: Excuse the caps, Sorry. I see them better but will abide as advised.I'll start with some prophecies about kingdoms & peoples fulfilled long after they were written. The effects are cumulative: after a certain number of bullseyes are unlikely to be a series of lucky guesses.7 Prophecies:Nineveh & the Assyrian empire. In 740 BC the Assyrians conquered the Northern 10 tribes, Israel. Jehovah pronounced judgment in the Bi book of Nahum who foretold Nineveh's fate.Babylon & the Chaldeans Destroyed Jerusalem & conquered southern 2 tribe kingdom of Judah in 607BC [most authorities date this event at 586-589BC]The Arabs: Prophecy to Hagar, who's son, Ishmael became first Arab, father of the race. circa 1950 BC fulfillment extends to our time.The Hebrews Prophecy in Deuteronomy 28Tyre Ezekiel 26 & Enc/AmericanaCyrus Conquest of BabylonThe Greeks: Alexander Vanquished PersiansMy burden is both to identify the prophesies and show their fulfillments aren't coincidence; also to show they were written prior to fulfillment. I expect my data will be largely original.Often asked: "If God is Good, why are things so Bad?" otherwise named "The Problem of Evil." On this topic the question is" Is my answer reasonable, if true? Possible subject for later investigation.By the way, if I'm right about these things, you get to live forever, on Earth in youth & paradise! That's really Jehovah wants for you: The meek shall inherit the Earth. I persist because you have so much to gain, but never fear, hellfire aint here.Where do we start?CHEMSCIENCEEdited by chemscience, : No reason given.

What has any of your post have to do with evolution? Biblical prophecies?

This is off topic and does not in anyway relate to evolution. Are you not going to debate evolution? Why did you want this thread started?You are on the wrong thread, this is a science thread not a theology thread.

---

"All great truths begin as blasphemies""I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

Hi Chemscience,EvC Forum has forums for both religion and science. This thread is in one of the science forums. From the Forum Guidelines:

2. Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.

If you'd like to discuss religion then please join one of the religion threads. The topic of this thread is evolution.

---

--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hello, Bluescat48I should offer what persuades me against accidentalism:The Cambrian Explosion introduced multiple phyla w/o trace of ancestors
The discontinuity of fossils.
The relentless series of extinctions, killing: 80% of Ordovician species, 80% Devonian, 95-99.9% Permian, 75% Triassic and 70% of Cretaceous species: contradicts propaganda of "4 billion years of gradual development", the line the public is fed, but you know better.A chart from the Life Book EARLY MAN hangs in thousands of classrooms illustrating "25 million years of evolution." The first 4 critters: Piopithecus, Procounsul, Dryopithecus & Oreopithecus are captioned as not being ancestral to man. Next, Ramapithecus, was dated at 5 MY ago and considered our first confirmed ancestor. When someone finally found a complete jawbone he was reclassified as “sivapithecus” a genus considered ancestral to orangutans & back-dated to 15MY.Then the EARLY MAN chart shows 2MY of australopithecines which both Leaky and Montegu deny were ancestral to humans. THE WHOLE CHART IS A LIE! But there it hangs in front of millions of children selling a greater lie: evolution is science and God made nothing. I wrote:Two hours had passed and I’d had my fill
Of this pseudoscientific swill
So I left the professor’s masterly tones
Worshipping apes and monkeys and bones
To reflect upon the great disgrace
That’s fallen on the human race
Slaving it’s vast intelligence
In service to such ignorance. [From Who Flings the Stars?]Evolutionist Nobel Laureate du Nouy called the game in Human Destiny: “Each group, order or family seems to be born suddenly and we hardly ever find the forms which link them to the preceding strain. When we discover them they are already completely differentiated. . in general it is impossible to authentically connect a new group with an ancient one.”Paleontology, incl: Schweitzer's discovery: red elastic tissue in Montana T-Rex, complete with odor of decayDiscontinuous & anachronistic layers of fossils: Lewis overthrust: lower fossils are “1,230,000,000 years younger than those above.” Explanation: 800 trillions tons of rock slid 50 miles.Donald Johanson’s confession in LUCY that students believe anything you tell them. He found Lucy.Many scientists of high credentials decry this myth, as Michael Denton called it.Mathematical improbabilityDisregard of artistry: Peacocks & Butterflies & Songbirds & KittensUnlikely/Bizarre systems of development: grub to cocoon to butterfly, shout divine designTerns migrate pole to pole. Fragile Canadian Monarch butterflies traverse 2,000 miles to a tiny patch of forest in Mexico. They’re equipped with a unique circadian clock which lets them to fly by sunlight, automatically compensating for the sun’s position as the day advances.No doubt you have explain-aways for the foregoing, evolutionary “scientists” never lack for reasons,but to me the majesty of creation testifies to a living God, “who created us, not we ourselves.” Or I'm in the wrong catagory,
thread."Evolution is unproved and unprovable. We believe in it because Creation is unthinkable”: Sir Arthur Keith, President, Royal Anthropological Institute. Evolution & Ethics, 1947Aldous Huxley in 6/66 Report: Professions of a Confessest Atheist: “I had motives for not wanting the world to have meaning ... objected to a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom”Question: In China they take an aborted fetus, make soup out of it, and sell it for $40/Bowl. Since we're all just naked apes, and they need protein to sustain their masses, is there any moral basis on which to condemn the practice?CHEMSCIENCE

Hello Bluescat48Huntard wanted to see the evidence of Bible authenticity I spoke of, I'm offering to present such, but don't wish to infringe on the wrong thread.Answering your question: I believe these things contradict Darwinism:

---

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Hi chemscience,You provided a long list of objections, the majority of which are relevant to evolution (thanks for that!). Instead of trying to answer all of it at once, I'm just going to flag one point. As something of a keen birder, I wondered what it was about this that you feel contradicts evolution. What is your objection? Are you referring to the terns here, or to the monarch butterflies you mentioned?Mutate and Survive.

---

"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

The Time-Life book Early Man appears to be from 1968.There have been a lot of discoveries and refinements since then, both in fossils and in dating methods.And the field of genetics and DNA analysis has come into its own since then.But don't let that stand in the way of the standard creationist talking point that science is all wrong and can't be trusted because it changes.Those changes represent improvements; science is becoming more accurate all the time.Your examples from the Early Man book are horribly outdated. Care to try again with current scientific findings? What, for example, do you think of Homo ergaster and its role as a transitional?

---

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Hi, Granny!Dr. Steven Reppert, neurobiologist, says the Monarchs "have an entirely different way of building a circadian clock than the other insects and animals studied so far. ... I want to understnd how the brain incorporates information about time & space, and the monarch is a spectacular example."Learning more of the secrets of the Monarchs inner timepiece might give scientists further insight into circadian clocks of humans & animals and may lead to new therapies for neurological afflictions.TERNS: They cross thousands of miles of open ocean, powered by perhaps an ounce of body fat. If they miss target they die. Who taught terns where Antartica is? Trial & Error would be fatal. One generation of drowned terns and the species becomes extinct.Of course one could posit their migrations commenced in Gondwana, before the continents separated, but that was about 4 times before birds are said to have arrived. Archeopteryx, [who was a real bird, btw] is pegged at 145 MY. So that Idea flunks. (It was mine, don't blame it on anybody else)So the problem remains, How these fragile creatures acquired the skill and sense of direction to execute enormous round trips. I vote for Jehovah.Now be frank, Granny: Based on this improbable phenomenon, could a reasonable person see it as basis for belief in creation?If you have another idea please explain it in detail.CHEMSCIENCEEdited by chemscience, : No reason given.

No it didn't just that animals with hard parts developed which allowed many more fossils to form. There was no "explosion." This part of the Cambrian lasted millions of years. Check out the Book The Ancestor's Tale.

---

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969