Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/7


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Expectations For The New Obama Democrat Government
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 151 of 341 (488467)
11-11-2008 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by NosyNed
11-10-2008 5:02 PM


Re: Not qualified
N Ned writes:
You, Buz, are not in any way qualified to comment on what Jesus was like. You are the polar opposite of what we see portrayed as Jesus in the bible. He is shown as filled with love.
Have you forgotten the scriptural accounts of his anger when he overturned the tables in the temple, his verbal assessment of the Pharisees and Scribes as snakes and whited sepulchers, his instructions for his disciples to shake the dust off the feet of certain ones who treated them unkindly, etc?
Ned, Jesus was regarded by the pundits of his day so badly that they continually sought to do him in, which they finally accomplished.
Jess's love was not blind. That he told them the unpopular truth which they needed to hear led them to crucify him, the penalty reserved to the most evil criminals.
That's what I do here. I tell what I think you people need. Likely that is often what you people think you are doing for me. It's that we don't see things alike. That was so with Jesus and his antagonists, except that his antagonists were the ones who were by far the most intolerant ones who had no compassion.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by NosyNed, posted 11-10-2008 5:02 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Syamsu, posted 11-11-2008 7:21 PM Buzsaw has not replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 152 of 341 (488468)
11-11-2008 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Buzsaw
11-11-2008 6:36 PM


Re: Not qualified
my ideology happens to be the minority POV at this site does not make my ideology a bigot ideology or me a bigot.
I agree, having a minority opinion does not make you a bigot, having a bigoted opinion does. Face it Buz if you say racist shit like:
God separated the races and attempting to mix them is like attempting to mix water with diesel fuel.
Then people are going to come to the conclusion that you're a racist piece of shit.
too often it's just personal attack and yada about my alleged bigotry, racism or other nonsense.
Your bigotry and racism are hardly alleged Buz. You've been quite open about it, for example:
God separated the races and attempting to mix them is like attempting to mix water with diesel fuel.
Message 177
Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.

soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Buzsaw, posted 11-11-2008 6:36 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Buzsaw, posted 11-11-2008 11:17 PM DrJones* has replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 153 of 341 (488469)
11-11-2008 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Buzsaw
11-11-2008 6:36 PM


Re: Not qualified
Dr JonesI agree, having a minority opinion does not make you a bigot, having a bigoted opinion does. Face it Bux if you say racist shit like:
Buzsaw
God separated the races and attempting to mix them is like attempting to mix water with diesel fuel.
Oh, by the way how many races, 3, 10, 2000, 6.6 billion?
That statement is totally idiotic. I agree with Dr Jones on his comments.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Buzsaw, posted 11-11-2008 6:36 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5589 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 154 of 341 (488471)
11-11-2008 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Buzsaw
11-11-2008 6:52 PM


Re: Not qualified
That you're so concerned over government, just means you built your life around the government. It means you got bored and started to think like your fellow Americans were your family members. Margaret Thatcher said the nation doesn't exist, only families and individuals exist. So as before, that there is no family values person in office, means little. You got enough freedom to make policy on your own, like homeschooling.
I think the main thing to break the power of government is to have punishment outside of government. To have punishment other than by legal force, means you have standards of your own, standards in the hearts of people. The court of public opinion is an example. But I think we should go all the way with that, and just have socialized jails, where people are invited to go to a jail, without being legally forced. Only being there because they respect the wish of the community that they should be there. That will clean the streets of young thugs, and clean out greed from the stockmarket, a civilized vigilante justice employing peerpressure.
There is so much that can be done without government, it is not neccessarily so that the next years in America will be shaped by Obama, there is an oppurtunity for the people themselves to act.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Buzsaw, posted 11-11-2008 6:52 PM Buzsaw has not replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 155 of 341 (488473)
11-11-2008 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Buzsaw
11-11-2008 6:36 PM


Re: Not qualified
That my ideology happens to be the minority POV at this site does not make my ideology a bigot ideology or me a bigot.
You are absolutely right, its not because you are in the minority that your opinions are considered bigotry, its because your opinions are bigotry that you are in the minority.
I could claim you people all as bigots simply because you don't see it as I do and you don't ascribe to much of the information which I get.
Buz I think there are safe measures by which to judge someone as a bigot, or that they are making bigoted remarks. That you don't see your remarks as bigotry is perfectly understandable, at least by me, but I would hope that valid arguments can make an impact on ones opinions. If in fact it will for you is unlikely.
However, the vast majority of mainstream media is leftist, democratic and liberal.
The media is what it is told to be. The 'media' as an entity is a business. It is guilded like all businesses to make money. The bottom lines is profit. If advertisers see a liberal market they will push for liberal view points and vice versa. The pundits are meaningless, what they spew out of their mouths is read off of a prompter. Most of it is exagerated propaganda to increase ratings and gain more advertisment value. Stories like "Obamas pastuer is an extremist" is just sensationalism. It is just used to catch your attention so you can watch advertisment. Newspapers have become worse because they already lost value with tv, then the internet is kicking their butt, so they really have to compete for your attention and advertisment dollar.
So, there is no such thing as an opinionated media, all there is is a media thats willing to do whatever it takes to get your attention and gain more profit. Thats why you should investigate properly the things you hear from them, in fact I would avoid listening to them all together, unless its for pure entertainment. News medias are worthless. They are a big business driving to succeed by any means necessary.
Often when counterparts demean and engage in name calling, labeling and posting substanceless meanspirited messages their response is to a message substantiated by a link to source or UTUBE clip. Rather than addressing points made in the link, too often it's just personal attack and yada about my alleged bigotry, racism or other nonsense.
Well when it becomes the general consensus that you're sounding like quite the bigot, and if you've had these discussions outside of forums im sure you've heard that term towards you before, then it may be time to check yourself. To realize where you are making your mistakes and man up to being wrong. But, hey, you do and feel however you want to, its your life bro. Just be ready when discussing in an open forum to hear peoples opinions, and yes we are all adults so name calling should be above us...but its not.
No matter how many times I cite valid reasons why I am not a practicing racist, for example, the lie is soon repeated that I'm racist just because the one I happen to be opposed to is half black.
Hey if you think Obama sucks then good, I think he's going to suck too. As, they all do to some degree. I think he may do some good too, or at least has the potential to do good. Time will tell. These are not the opinions that are making you out to be a bigot. You've attacked his friends as if their opinions are his, his religion as if he was actually a muslim, or as if that even matters, and began to site religious references to the rising of Islam. You never once judged him on the basis of anything other than your religious ideologies.
Plus, all of your opinions were just assertions that you picked up from the media. You were shown exactly where you misunderstood and you still don't care. You still believe that the crazy stories you heard on the news are true. In fact not only does that show that you personally are a bigot but, you allow other sources' bigotry to infuence you. You are a politicians dream!
Question your sources Buz!
Edited by onifre, : grammer, spelling

"All great truths begin as blasphemies"
"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Buzsaw, posted 11-11-2008 6:36 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 156 of 341 (488477)
11-11-2008 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Buzsaw
11-11-2008 6:36 PM


Re: Not qualified
Thanks, Onifre. Your points are well taken and do make sense in that the media which one ascribes to can have a bearing on one's ideology. It doesn't make sense though regarding bigotry. That my ideology happens to be the minority POV at this site does not make my ideology a bigot ideology or me a bigot. By that token, I could claim you people all as bigots simply because you don't see it as I do and you don't ascribe to much of the information which I get. I don't stoop that low, but honor your POV as above the level of bigotry.
Buz, we don't call you a bigot because your opinion is a minority view. Bigotry is not a reverse popularity contest. Further, simple disagreement does not make one a bigot. I disagree with religion in general, but I won't judge a person because of whether they believe in a deity.
But when you say that homosexuality is immoral, or that mixing races is wrong, or that a Muslim if elected President would begin a policy of forced conversion to Islam in the US, you're making blanket judgments about large groups of people.
quote:
Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: \bi-gt\
Function: noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices ; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
You, Buz, are obstinately and intolerantly devoted to your opinions and prejudices. To you, all Muslims are terrorists, and all people with Arabic names and brown skin are Muslims. To you, homosexuality is evil, and you cannot back that assertion up with any sort of rational argument beyond appealing to the authority of the Bible. Evidence that homosexuality is common in nature and that homosexual relationships can be just as happy, committed, and loving as heterosexual relationships simply falls on deaf ears with you.
You respond to groups of people with intolerance and hatred in the guise of "loving the sinner and hating the sin," as if you could somehow simultaneously love a person while hating an intrinsic part of his being.
You make wild accusations about Obama being some super-secret Muslim, as if there were a religious test required to be President in the US (a little aside: the COnstitution specifically forbids any religious test. A Muslim should have jsut as much ability to be President as a Christian or a Jew or a Hindu or a Biddist or an Atheist - only the bigotry of the voting public keeps the Presidency as a de facto Christian office). You ignore evidence to the contrary, asserting that any evidence of his Christianity is in actuality a cover to allow him to infiltrate the US government and begin forcing people to convert to Islam (as if the President had that kind of power anyway, or that you need to be President to infiltrate the government - Obama couldn't institute the sort of policies you're afraid of without the cooperation of Congress and the Supreme Court, as well as enough of the military and general public to overwhealm the non-Muslim majority of the nation. Even the Nazis weren't a one-man operation, or did you think that Hitler was a "stealth anti-semite" and enacted his policies on an innocent, Jew-loving populace who widely rejected the Nazis?).
You abandon sense and reason in favor of your wild, fearful fantasies. And why? Because "Barack Hussein Obama" is not a Christian name, and because he has brown skin. You don't have any evidence to support your assertions beyond flimsy associations and terrified repetitions of your "STEALTH MUSLIM" mantra.
This has absolutely nothing to do with your views beign the minority opinion here or anywhere else, Buz. It has nothing to do with general disagreement, either. It has everything to do with you being a bigot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Buzsaw, posted 11-11-2008 6:36 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 157 of 341 (488489)
11-11-2008 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by DrJones*
11-11-2008 6:57 PM


Re: Not qualified
DrJones writes:
Then people are going to come to the conclusion that you're a racist piece of shit.
Why then do you think I supported with a donation and voted for black man Allan Keys when he ran for president?
Why then would I be sacrificing well over 10% of my income to Voice Of The Martyrs who in turn uses it to aid black destitute and oppressed folks in African Nation?
Why don't you label Obama the racist instead of me, given he sat in a black supremest and black racist church with his full support to it and it's allegiance to the Nation of Islam, black supremest extremists along with the likes of racist Louis Farrakhan? Yet you're calling me racist for citing that either evolution or God caused the original separation of the races.
Why do you call me a racist for pointing out a scripture that says something about the races? Those are not my words. I just cited them when covering the prophecy. Why did you cherry pick to make it appear as a racist statement when in that thread I covered some of what I've explained here and what I've had to explain adnausium to you people who like to demean and do your personal attacks against me repeatedly lying on the www about me being a racist?
Why don't you acknowledge the fact that there is more racism observed with blacks than there is with whites in America? Why is it that such a high percentage of blacks voted for Obama because he was black skinned?
Btw, two Christian black men were in a group who sang and ministered in our church last Sabbath three days ago. One of the black men did the preaching and impressed me so much that I handed him a $20 bill after the service to help him and his group along in their ministry. Our 7th day Baptist denomination has a pretty much all black congregation from Ontario who come and join us here in upstate NY on occasion when denominational events arise. We all in our church love all of these Jamaican descended black folks dearly and they minister in song and preaching in our churches on occasions. Do you think I would enjoy and love these brothers and sisters in Christ if I were practicing racism? Hmmm, Dr Jones??
Is this, another reminder to you, enough to give you reason to put this racism personal attack lie to rest, or do we need to interrupt every thread in which I have a problem with the ideology of someone who is a black like our president elect, in order to repeat clearing up these false charges made against me?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by DrJones*, posted 11-11-2008 6:57 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by DrJones*, posted 11-11-2008 11:46 PM Buzsaw has replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 158 of 341 (488491)
11-11-2008 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Buzsaw
11-11-2008 11:17 PM


Re: Not qualified
Why then do you think I supported with a donation and voted for black man Allan Keys when he ran for president?
Why then would I be sacrificing well over 10% of my income to Voice Of The Martyrs who in turn uses it to aid black destitute and oppressed folks in African Nation?
Do you think I would enjoy and love these brothers and sisters in Christ if I were practicing racism?
First off we only have your word for all of this, and secondly I'm not saying you're as bad as a Klanner just that you're a racist.
black racist church with his full support to it and it's allegiance to the Nation of Islam
Please document the church's "allegiance to the Nation of Islam".
Why don't you acknowledge the fact that there is more racism observed with blacks than there is with whites in America?
Please document this "fact".
Why do you call me a racist for pointing out a scripture that says something about the races? Those are not my words.
The words aren't racist, your interpretation of them is.
Why did you cherry pick to make it appear as a racist statement
Buz in what context is:
God separated the races and attempting to mix them is like attempting to mix water with diesel fuel.
not racist? Your racism might be influenced by your interpretation of the bible or it could be your interpretation of the bible is influenced by your racism, it really doesn't matter. Claiming a religious basis for your racism doesn't stop you from being a racist, just like people who claim a religious basis for murder don't stop being murderers.

soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Buzsaw, posted 11-11-2008 11:17 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Buzsaw, posted 11-12-2008 8:23 AM DrJones* has not replied

FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 159 of 341 (488501)
11-12-2008 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Fosdick
11-11-2008 11:40 AM


Re: Not qualified
Fosdick The Fearless writes:
That would be like saying: You, kuresu, are not in any way qualified to comment on what Bugs Bunny was like."
So Jesus is a fictitious cartoon character. Boy, it certainly is nice to hear a "christian" finally admit it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Fosdick, posted 11-11-2008 11:40 AM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Fosdick, posted 11-12-2008 10:56 AM FliesOnly has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 160 of 341 (488502)
11-12-2008 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by DrJones*
11-11-2008 11:46 PM


Re: Not qualified
Rant on, Jones. It's time to get back to topic.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by DrJones*, posted 11-11-2008 11:46 PM DrJones* has not replied

Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5499 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 161 of 341 (488509)
11-12-2008 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by FliesOnly
11-12-2008 6:57 AM


Re: Not qualified
FliesOnly writes:
So Jesus is a fictitious cartoon character. Boy, it certainly is nice to hear a "christian" finally admit it.
You must have me confused with someone who believes that Jesus was the Son of God. However, I do admire both Jesus and Bugs for their durability in Hollywood.
”FTF

I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by FliesOnly, posted 11-12-2008 6:57 AM FliesOnly has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 162 of 341 (488812)
11-17-2008 10:40 PM


Obama's First Act To Aid Global Terror
President Elect Obama has reiterated his promise to close Gitmo and that this would be one of his first priorities.
This just lends support my contention that Obama will work to advance Islam, undercut the war against Jihad and as his militant and totalitarian Muslim supporters around the world consider to be the case.
Closing the base at Gitmo serves no purpose but to consolidate the ruthless Communist regime on that Island and to advance global Jihad terror. It figures in with Obama's close associates in his past which is both socialist and Islam.
Interestingly, the Islamic militant nations surrounding Israel who vowed to drive the Jews into the sea in the 1967 six day war, were armed by Communist powers; in particular, the then powerful Soviet Union.
Edited by Buzsaw, : Clarify statement.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by RAZD, posted 11-17-2008 11:08 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 164 by DrJones*, posted 11-17-2008 11:46 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 165 by anglagard, posted 11-18-2008 2:31 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 166 by Huntard, posted 11-18-2008 7:13 AM Buzsaw has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 163 of 341 (488813)
11-17-2008 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Buzsaw
11-17-2008 10:40 PM


Re: Obama's First Act To Restore JUSTICE
President Elect Obama has reiterated his promise to close Gitmo and that this would be one of his first priorities.
Finally, closing a chapter on one of the worst over-reaches of the BushII constitution breaking, treaty busting, human rights violations in american history.
This just lends support my contention that Obama will work to advance Islam, ...
BushII has created more terrorist due to locking people up in Gitmo than he and his henchmen kept there, perverting justice, and freedom, and breaking international treaties (Geneva Convention for one), and in the process trashing the reputation of the US as a country that honors justice.
Closing the base at Gitmo serves no purpose but to consolidate the ruthless Communist regime on that Island and to advance global Jihad terror.
Wow! a bug-bear two-fer! You get to "scare" us with both religious fanaticism AND communism.
Fallacy of appeal to consequences, Buz.
Personally I think closing gitmo will do more to (a) restore the US in the worlds eye as a place dedicated to freedom and justice (as opposed to repression and arbitrary punishment), and (b) reduce terrorism in the long run.
Bravo, Obama, well done.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2008 10:40 PM Buzsaw has not replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 164 of 341 (488817)
11-17-2008 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Buzsaw
11-17-2008 10:40 PM


Re: Obama's First Act To Aid Global Terror
Closing the base at Gitmo serves no purpose but to consolidate the ruthless Communist regime on that Island
Good thing he's not talking about closing the base, just the dentention center there.
edited to add:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.../06/24/AR2007062401046.html
Barack Obama told a Texas crowd on Sunday that he wants the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, detainee facility closed _ a step the Bush administration is considering.
It looks like the Bush administration also wants to consolidate the ruthless Communist regime on that Island and aid global terror.
Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.
Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.

soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2008 10:40 PM Buzsaw has not replied

anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 165 of 341 (488820)
11-18-2008 2:31 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Buzsaw
11-17-2008 10:40 PM


Re: Obama's First Act To Aid Global Terror
buzsaw writes:
President Elect Obama has reiterated his promise to close Gitmo and that this would be one of his first priorities.
This just lends support my contention that Obama will work to advance Islam, undercut the war against Jihad and as his militant and totalitarian Muslim supporters around the world consider to be the case.
Closing the base at Gitmo serves no purpose but to consolidate the ruthless Communist regime on that Island and to advance global Jihad terror. It figures in with Obama's close associates in his past which is both socialist and Islam.
Interestingly, the Islamic militant nations surrounding Israel who vowed to drive the Jews into the sea in the 1967 six day war, were armed by Communist powers; in particular, the then powerful Soviet Union.
Thanks, Buzsaw for this post along with so many others. It has provided me a greater insight into the plot of Star Trek V along with several 'foreign' and therefore likely to you, 'evil' movies and books.
May you never have a starship, or be the judge or on the jury at Dostoevsky's or Kafka's Trial (or for that matter, John Peter Zenger's or Giordano Bruno's).

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2008 10:40 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024