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Author Topic:   Diversification: Random Walk or Biological Determinism?
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5576 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 31 of 35 (488833)
11-18-2008 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by New Cat's Eye
11-17-2008 9:58 PM


Re: An ab initio Reducto ad Diversito.
So, CS, should I put you down as one who thinks biological diversification is a random walk?
”FTF

I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-17-2008 9:58 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-18-2008 12:25 PM Fosdick has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 35 (488840)
11-18-2008 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Fosdick
11-18-2008 10:48 AM


Re: An ab initio Reducto ad Diversito.
So, CS, should I put you down as one who thinks biological diversification is a random walk?
I can't answer that with a yes/no....
I don't think Random Mutation necessitates diversification, but it could be an inevitability given non-negetive selective pressure. I don't really know for sure.
I think that Natural Selection would be the driving force to diversitfication. An evironment sutiable for diversity will bread diversity and one that isn't, won't. One that's rather hostile would reduce diversity, obviously.
So, is biological diversity random.... I guess when you boil it down, it has to have some random component from the mutations, but then the environmnet determines (in that mechanical sense) whether or not the diversity will increase.

”FTF
So, you see the acronym FTW around a lot and it stand for: "For The Win" For example, after seen some pics posted, someone might post:
quote:
#3 FTW
Indicating they think #3 was the best.
Anyways, I see your "FTF" on there and I'm thinking:
What!? Does that mean "For The Fail"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Fosdick, posted 11-18-2008 10:48 AM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Fosdick, posted 11-18-2008 1:17 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 34 by straightree, posted 11-20-2008 6:00 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 35 by Fosdick, posted 11-20-2008 7:41 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5576 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 33 of 35 (488842)
11-18-2008 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by New Cat's Eye
11-18-2008 12:25 PM


Re: An ab initio Reducto ad Diversito.
Works for me. It's all in the attitude: I win when I win and I win when I fall.
”FTF

I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-18-2008 12:25 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
straightree
Member (Idle past 4827 days)
Posts: 57
From: Near Olot, Spain
Joined: 09-26-2008


Message 34 of 35 (488988)
11-20-2008 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by New Cat's Eye
11-18-2008 12:25 PM


Randomness and predictability
quote:
So, is biological diversity random.... I guess when you boil it down, it has to have some random component from the mutations, but then the environmnet determines (in that mechanical sense) whether or not the diversity will increase.
Hy CS, yes, I thing that randomness is necessary to breed diversity, otherwise absolute determinism would only breed uniformity.
I also would like to point out, that some times, and I talk also for myself, we confuse randomness with unpredictability. A random process has a probability assigned for all the possible outcomes, be them known to us or not. Taking the typical random example of the die, the probability of having one particular number is 1/6, but, if we make a run of 6.000 tries, we will have very approximately 1.000 occurrences for each number. So the final outcome is prity much deterministic. Am I saying a barbarity?

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 Message 32 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-18-2008 12:25 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5576 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 35 of 35 (489003)
11-20-2008 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by New Cat's Eye
11-18-2008 12:25 PM


Re: An ab initio Reducto ad Diversito.
CS writes:
So, is biological diversity random.... I guess when you boil it down, it has to have some random component from the mutations...
I have to agree with Dawkins that selfish gene activities like replication and propagation (usually via fertilization) are deterministic. Genes are nothing if not determined to survive. They may be the most deterministic things in nature. If diversification is be proven to be a deterministic act of genes”i.e., a "tool" for their survival”then I think diversification is a form of biological determinism. But I'm not sure diversification is always beneficial to the genes. I could see arguments on both side of the issue.
...but then the environmnet determines (in that mechanical sense) whether or not the diversity will increase.
Do you consider the diversification of cracks in drying mud a deterministic act? Is there's a difference between mechanical diversification and deterministic diversification? I think so.
”FTF

I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-18-2008 12:25 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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