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Author Topic:   Anything Divine in the Bible?
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 3 of 406 (489450)
11-27-2008 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Nighttrain
11-27-2008 2:39 AM


Genesis Chapter 1 read by Jerry Ketchum at Easter Eve, with the smell of incense around, did it for me. But then Jerry could probably have read a Polish telephone directory with enough dramatic skill to have given a couple of goosebumps. In other words, the presentation and context count for more that the words. The same applies with "he gave his back to the smiters, and his cheeks to those that plucked out the hair" if 1) read or 2) put to music by Mr Handel.

This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 59 of 406 (490251)
12-03-2008 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Peg
12-03-2008 5:28 AM


Re: read again
just look at the teachings and words of Jesus Christ and you'll see that he had the mind of God...love your neighbor as yourself...love is the dominating nature of God, Jesus clearly showed this
"Clearly" certainly doesn't fit in there....the teachings of Jesus run toward the diametrical opposite of the god that is described in Deuteronomy or Joshua. The "mind of God" described back there is the mind of a sociopathic tyrant, not that of a "love your neighbor" sort of guy at all. It still amazes me how Christians try to avoid this glaring inconsistency, and even go on about "God is unchanging." Strange.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Peg, posted 12-03-2008 5:28 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by jaywill, posted 12-03-2008 4:37 PM Coragyps has replied
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 65 of 406 (490421)
12-04-2008 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by jaywill
12-03-2008 4:37 PM


Re: read again
Mark 12:30 - Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' 31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'There is no commandment greater than these."
24 Then Joshua, together with all Israel, took Achan son of Zerah, the silver, the robe, the gold wedge, his sons and daughters, his cattle, donkeys and sheep, his tent and all that he had, to the Valley of Achor. 25 Joshua said, "Why have you brought this trouble on us? The LORD will bring trouble on you today."
Then all Israel stoned him, and after they had stoned the rest, they burned them. 26 Over Achan they heaped up a large pile of rocks, which remains to this day. Then the LORD turned from his fierce anger. Therefore that place has been called the Valley of Achor ever since.
What else do you need, Jaywill?

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 Message 61 by jaywill, posted 12-03-2008 4:37 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by jaywill, posted 12-05-2008 7:13 AM Coragyps has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 69 of 406 (490446)
12-04-2008 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by jaywill
12-04-2008 3:40 PM


Re: read again
IF there is no God then where do you get your standard of morality by which you are outraged?
I won't speak for DA, but as for myself, I live among other people in an arrangement called "society." These societies all have standards of morality. Even troops of baboons have something closely resembling morality. That's because they are social creatures like humans are. Gods are not a requirement in the morality game. Having intelligent critters living together is sufficient to produce moral codes all by by itself.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 70 of 406 (490447)
12-04-2008 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by jaywill
12-04-2008 3:40 PM


Re: read again
God is PERFECT in righteousness and in holiness.
'Cept when it comes to smiting babies and having she-bears kill kids, and such as that. And creating Guinea worms and typanosomes.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by jaywill, posted 12-04-2008 3:40 PM jaywill has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 103 of 406 (490563)
12-05-2008 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by jaywill
12-05-2008 7:13 AM


Re: read again
Now would you say that the secular judge who has to sentence me to prison for the injury and mugging of another citizen betrays that he has no love for me? Does love mean that I can do anything I want with no fear of consequences?
So I see no teaching of Jesus, diametrically opposite, to the incident in Joshua chapter 7.
I'd say that a secular judge or any society that condemns the entire family of a lawbreaker to be stoned to death is as opposite to the teachings of Jesus as one can easily be. That's as opposite to any civilized morality as you can get, and yet it's the Holy Fucking Thing to do in your barbaric Old Testament. I spit upon such so-called "love." I just marvel at myself that I didn't utterly reject the whole book when I was old enough to understand it - say, at the age of twelve - instead of hanging on into my forties.

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 Message 78 by jaywill, posted 12-05-2008 7:13 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 128 of 406 (490636)
12-06-2008 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Dawn Bertot
12-06-2008 12:09 PM


Re: read again
Come on DA this is first year seminary stuff.
There's part of your problem, Bertot. Thr Greek and Hebrew part of seminary is somewhat useful, I guess, but all that time studying fictional entities and Ultimate Rights and Wrongs, when they're fictions, too, seems rather a waste of good intellect. My dad was a damn good preacher, but he'd have been a better mathematician or teacher.

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 Message 117 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-06-2008 12:09 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 141 of 406 (490663)
12-06-2008 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Buzsaw
12-06-2008 11:08 PM


Re: The golden rule
The reality is that most Eastern, Pagan and secularist cultures as well as the RCC have a poor track record of implementing the Golden Rule....
But Protestants do it GREAT! Ask the Apache, or Chickasaw, or Navaho! Or the !Kung or Bantu in South Africa! You could ask some of the New England Indians, but Protestants killed 'em all....
BS, Buz. That's wishful thinking.

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 Message 140 by Buzsaw, posted 12-06-2008 11:08 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Buzsaw, posted 12-07-2008 12:24 AM Coragyps has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 169 of 406 (490704)
12-07-2008 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Dawn Bertot
12-07-2008 10:48 AM


Re: read again
Let me ask this. Is there an absolute standard of right and wrong. Yes or no.
Of course there isn't. I view stoning the entire family of a thief to death as very, very wrong, but that's my opinion. It also happens to be the opinion of nearly everyone I know. I try to avoid hanging out too much with people who think it's a Good Thing - modern societies tend to regard them as sociopaths. And shit, I might have a cousin who steals something some day.
There need be no Absolute Morality for me to condemn behavior that I find offensive and disruptive to society, Bertot. I'm perfectly aware that morality depends on the society it's found in.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-07-2008 10:48 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 228 of 406 (490962)
12-10-2008 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Dawn Bertot
12-10-2008 9:19 AM


The words of our Lord about casting perils before swine and giving that which is holy unto dogs, should be observed as well.
Oink oink to you, too, vato.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-10-2008 9:19 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 281 of 406 (491094)
12-11-2008 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by jaywill
12-11-2008 1:41 PM


Re: If God Were Human Would He Want a God Like Him?
They may inflict pain for a terrible but short time. God is able to torment them for eternity -
But won't, and will clasp those mudering rapists to his bosom for all eternity if they only say the Magic Words on their deathbeds.
And you still don't see why I reject such a sick idea of a sick bastard of a God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by jaywill, posted 12-11-2008 1:41 PM jaywill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-11-2008 4:29 PM Coragyps has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 287 of 406 (491113)
12-11-2008 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by Dawn Bertot
12-11-2008 4:29 PM


Re: If God Were Human Would He Want a God Like Him?
Why are they murdering rapists and why are you so opposed to such relative subjective behavior.
Because they murdered and raped other human beings, doncha see? We live in a society made up of human beings. That sort of action tends to fragment that sort of society. I subjectively don't approve of that.
You can't possibly be that dense, Bertot, witout being made of osmium. You may be that obtuse, I guess, but what's the point?

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-11-2008 4:29 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-11-2008 9:49 PM Coragyps has not replied
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 309 of 406 (491207)
12-12-2008 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 307 by jaywill
12-12-2008 12:36 PM


I have to assume that those who did not disperse those evil societies and stop their crimes were the recipients of the merciless conquest.
Then you would be assuming wrong, because your scripture is where the armies of Joshua are told to kill every living thing, babies and sheep included.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by jaywill, posted 12-12-2008 12:36 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 314 by jaywill, posted 12-12-2008 4:20 PM Coragyps has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 321 of 406 (491233)
12-12-2008 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 314 by jaywill
12-12-2008 4:20 PM


...that it was a time for God to show No Pity on those judged.
There you go still - what were the infants and sheep "judged" for? Go on all you wish about "I don't understand it yet...." but I'll quote Mark Twain:
"Most people are bothered by those passages of Scripture they do not understand, but the passages that bother me are those I do understand."

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 314 by jaywill, posted 12-12-2008 4:20 PM jaywill has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 326 of 406 (491238)
12-12-2008 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 319 by jaywill
12-12-2008 4:54 PM


Re: If God Were Human Would He Want a God Like Him?
How is it that in the case of American slavery the Methodist, Quakers, Minnonites, and many abolitionists drew so much of there apologetic from the Bible?
If God was generally pro-slavery as you want to suggest, why did they find so much biblical ammunition to proclaim abolition?
That is interesting, isn't it? The abolitionists and my great-great-grandfather, good Christians all, drawing diametrically opposite conclusions from the same divinely inspired text. My g-g-gf, Ebenezer Dickey Junkin, D.D., even collected a whole crop of passages from that text to write a catechism "....Particularly for the Instruction of Coloured Persons."
Does that not tell you anything about your book, Jaywill? Bertot?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 319 by jaywill, posted 12-12-2008 4:54 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by jaywill, posted 12-12-2008 5:52 PM Coragyps has replied

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