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Author Topic:   Logical Proof of Existence of a Divine Creator, Why Atheism is Not Logically Sound
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3127 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 166 of 175 (489453)
11-27-2008 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by Dawn Bertot
11-27-2008 2:50 AM


Re: Entheogens
Since Mr Bush and co were so unsucsessful, please tell us your plan that would allow us to deal with these terrorists. Perhaps some more middle east peace talks, or embargos would shut them down. Maybe we could bomb a few vacated warehouse. Or perhaps we could just ignore them and hope everything turns out alright, the usual democrate method. Terrrorist actually count on simplistic passive individuals such as yourself.
Let's break this down. What were the reasons for taking down the Iraqi government, Mr. Bertot. Can you please provide clear and consise reasons supporting the Iraq war (not the war in Afghanistan)? Please provide specifics. We can do an in depth analysis here and see what the evidence for and against the war were/are and debate those or should this be posed as a new topic?

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-27-2008 2:50 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4142 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 167 of 175 (489491)
11-27-2008 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Dawn Bertot
11-27-2008 2:50 AM


Re: Entheogens
quote:
While so many countries pose no direct threat to the US, unfortunately its leader was a known supporter of terroism and a harbinger of those same terrorists.
That would be Iran and Saudi Arabia. Not Iraq which was a two bit player and not worth our time.
quote:
Only a fool would not recognize the reduction in these incidents by terrorists, since Bushes actions and sustained activity. Trying to make a distinction in these countries as to who is or is not involved is simply ludicrous. All of the countries which you and other mention are extremist, in some form or fashion.
Incorrect as usual. Terrorist attacks have actually risen since the 90s. And why is it a foolish distinction? Or are you making the asinine argument that everyone in a certain country is a terrorist?
Fail:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.../04/26/AR2005042601623.html
quote:
If Mr Bush was so misinformed, how did we kill, catch and detain so many of the architechs of these terrorist groups. The point is that no matter how much is done to stem the tide, you will still just keep crying Foul. Thank God leaders like Mr Bush ignore your razor sharp politcal insights, that would keep the terrorists in business.
We didn't catch them in Iraq. Most were caught in Pakistan which we did not invade and Afghanistan. You ignore facts.
Do you ever address actual facts or are you content with your delusions?
Btw: Dubya says you are wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-27-2008 2:50 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2977 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 168 of 175 (489500)
11-27-2008 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by bluescat48
11-27-2008 8:22 AM


Re: Entheogens
Hi bluecat,
Cuba
Cuba has terrorist?
I was not aware of that, do you have info on that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by bluescat48, posted 11-27-2008 8:22 AM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by bluescat48, posted 11-27-2008 11:18 PM onifre has replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4216 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 169 of 175 (489519)
11-27-2008 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by onifre
11-27-2008 9:32 PM


Re: Entheogens
Try Castro

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by onifre, posted 11-27-2008 9:32 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by onifre, posted 11-28-2008 9:11 AM bluescat48 has replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2977 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 170 of 175 (489563)
11-28-2008 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by bluescat48
11-27-2008 11:18 PM


Re: Entheogens
Try Castro
I know his history quite well. Why would you consider Castro a terrorist?
I fully understand if you called him a worthless dictator or a mass murderer, but I don't see how you get terrorist.
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by bluescat48, posted 11-27-2008 11:18 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by bluescat48, posted 11-28-2008 12:49 PM onifre has replied

vcorporation
Junior Member (Idle past 5625 days)
Posts: 1
From: Australia
Joined: 11-28-2008


Message 171 of 175 (489565)
11-28-2008 9:42 AM


We don't want you to ask yourself 'how do I know (your particular) god is real and true and everyone else has it wrong.'
We want you to ask yourself 'WHY do I know god is real and true and everyone else has it wrong'
I'm an atheist that cannot help but say, 'god damn it' or 'jesus christ' when surprised, why would I say that if I don't believe in gods?
Because of childhood indoctrination.
Why else do you have to repeat 'jesus' and 'lord' and so forth over and over again in your hymns and prayers?
And most theists do not understand why some atheists are so hostile, they try not to be, but if you know a decent amount about your own religion (assuming its christian) you would know the bloodthirsty tales of vengeance and baby bashing and rape and so forth that was permitted and encouraged by the church.
And a lot (a fearful amount) of people still worship the old testament.
So while your god may be one of love, another of the same denomination has a god of hate and wrath.. they are one and the same god yet dual and opposite, which should scientifically cancel each other out into nothingness, as Douglas Adams put it "Disappearing in a puff of logic"
Of course now we have the 'Nice church' for modern times, now that they and their flock are not longer allowed to persecute (that means burn in this instance) thousands of women, children, everyone that disagreed.
That's why the flock of god are not very good at explaining why they feel god is there, because lets assume the evolution of the faithful led them to be able to survive the reality based environment by burning those that pointed out otherwise.
They can no longer perform this particular survival trait.
I mean you say your god is real and nothing will challenge your faith, the one true faith! What about that poor shmoe over here who believes in a different god. He knows he's right, there is NO proof that his god exists at all, he just knows it. How would you as caring Christians save his sorry soul from burning damnation if he wouldn't believe that his god is not the one true god.
It would be like fighting your reflection, they use the same tools of self-deception as well.
There MUST be a god, because if the great lord and creator is a fallacy, if there is no god?........... that's where your thoughts stop.
Just imagine that, if there was no God... imagine all those deaths in vain, all those lives wasted running about making sure not to upset someone who was never watching and never cared,
Ignoring this life for a life that you will never know is not there.
The Atheist Dilemma is that there is no afterlife for us to actually exist in to be able to tell you "I told you so!" about the fact that there is no afterlife!!
Seriously Religious folks, don't just say how holy you are, get in there and read the bible, the old testament, look for online translations if the meaning is lost on you. Most Atheists are created when full realization of their cult's bloodthirsty history and massive death count.
And that 'The old testament is no longer meant to be taken seriously' stuff doesn't cut the mustard here, who decided it doesn't have to be taken seriously? because the book itself says 'Don't you dare close this book, its all real, sacrifice your goat and stone your troublesome son, sell your daughter as a slave.
It was just a pyramid scheme for old crusty dudes with no money or muscles to get power quick. If they knew how much damage it would cause they might have thought twice about it.

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4216 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 172 of 175 (489599)
11-28-2008 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by onifre
11-28-2008 9:11 AM


Re: Entheogens
Let's just call him a super terrorist in the category with Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Amin etc. who, although they don't necessarily do the terror the same way as say suicide bombers or serial killers, they invoke terror by such things as killing any one who can possibly harm them whether real or imagined, as was Hitler's party purge in 1932 or
the use of "secret police" to intimidate or arrest "suspected" enemies.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by onifre, posted 11-28-2008 9:11 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by onifre, posted 11-28-2008 3:22 PM bluescat48 has replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2977 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 173 of 175 (489609)
11-28-2008 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by bluescat48
11-28-2008 12:49 PM


Re: Entheogens
I am in no way supporting Castro, being that both my parents fled Cuba I understand the issue and have always hated him for what he did to my family during the revolution. But...
they invoke terror by such things as killing any one who can possibly harm them whether real or imagined,
By those standards the US is a terrorist nation too. Along with Israel and Europe, wouldn't you agree?
I mean as far as invoking terror on other countries, no one does that better than the US, Israel and Europe. If we are taking it to the degree of a Hitler or Pol Pot.
However, Castro is nowhere near the threat that Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, or for that matter, the US, are. The Castro government was lucky to be associated with Russia during the Cold War, thats what saved Castro then. Now a days it's not the same country. In fact 80% of the citizens are pro Castro. The poor of the country benefited from the revolution and now pretty much populate the entire country, those with money came here to Miami and began their lives all over again.
One other benefit to Castro is that Cuba has nothing of interest to the US, therefore Castro cannot threaten our economy in any way, so why bother with him?
I will agree that he was a ruthless dictator, of course educated in the US, but, now a days the Castro government is more show than anything else. It's in place because no one cares about the citizens of Cuba and because Cuba is of no financial value to the US, so they're not worth saving. But, I cannot see how you can equate him as a terrorist without calling the US, Israel and Europe terrorist who pose a bigger threat on humanity than the island 90 miles from the Florida Keys.

"All great truths begin as blasphemies"
"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by bluescat48, posted 11-28-2008 12:49 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by bluescat48, posted 11-28-2008 4:36 PM onifre has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4216 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 174 of 175 (489615)
11-28-2008 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by onifre
11-28-2008 3:22 PM


Re: Entheogens
By those standards the US is a terrorist nation too. Along with Israel and Europe, wouldn't you agree?
Yes, I would agree, and probably most countries would seem to be. The point is not the country itself but those who are in charge.
Edited by bluescat48, : additional comment

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by onifre, posted 11-28-2008 3:22 PM onifre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by AdminNosy, posted 11-28-2008 4:41 PM bluescat48 has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 175 of 175 (489616)
11-28-2008 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by bluescat48
11-28-2008 4:36 PM


Closing for now
If someone has something to say on topic they can ask for a reopening of this thread.
Until then we'll enjoy a moment of silence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by bluescat48, posted 11-28-2008 4:36 PM bluescat48 has not replied

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