Report discussion problems here: No.2

This is an example of signature spamming. Websites can increase their rank in search engines like Google by increasing the number of websites that reference them.I get requests all the time to crosslink with other websites that have nothing whatsoever to do with the creation/evolution debate, and I always turn them down.But it's always very easy to create references to your website at discussion boards like this one by simply including the link in a message (there are companies that will do this for you). And this is just what this spammer has done.And so I will edit that message and break that link while leaving the message appearing exactly as it already does. Thus, when they check back in a week or so to make sure the message is still there, it will appear that all is well when it isn't, and they won't make another attempt to post the link here.Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I'd like Seeking to stick around, too, and you're right that there's no debate without creationists, but EvC Forum will offer no member relief from the requirements of science nor of constructive debate as outlined in the Forum Guidelines.For Seeking it is as you said, it is in his hands.More generally, it is becoming increasingly obvious that the defeat of intelligent design at Dover has left both it specifically and creationism in general in such disarray that creationists, at least the ones who show up here, no longer know what to think. I have witnessed the creation/evolution debate's primary emphasis evolve from YEC issues to OEC issues to ID issues. Creationists here used to be very informed about the particular viewpoint they were advocating if not of science. Now we seem only to get the very ignorant, of both science *and*, alarmingly and surprisingly, their own position.I don't believe the fix for this is to relax our standards.The current creationist position, including ID, is "teach the controversy." This advocates no specific position, and since there's no scientific controversy it doesn't carry any weight in a science discussion, which is why you never see "teach the controversy" threads here.It only carries weight in school board meetings and casual discussions, and in presentations to state legislatures, where the accuracy of the claim of a controversy is least likely to be questioned.Sorry I can't offer any relief for Seeking.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I don't think there's too much to worry about in this regard. Seeking got a 24-hour suspension for ignoring multiple moderator requests, not for a lack of scientific temperament, and lacking such temperament is not unique to creationists.Anyway, he was originally asked to please begin engaging the topic from two moderators, and he ignored the request. He was then asked to stop posting to the thread by two moderators, and he ignored that request, too. He could have resumed participation at the thread set up for him by RAZD, but he didn't, he just kept posting to the thread he'd been requested not to post to. That's why he was suspended for one day.You have to be persistently obnoxious (or clueless to a degree that is indistinguishable from obnoxiousness) to get banned permanently. You have to work at it, but by ignoring moderators so blatantly Seeking has put himself on the fast track.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi, guys, thanks for bringing this to our attention. NYK007 is a signature spammer.One way to increase a website's rating by search engines like Google is by placing links to the website at as many other websites as possible. Discussion boards are one easy place to do this through signature spamming. After registering they post just one or a few fairly vanilla and inoffensive messages that include a link to the website in their signature. They try to make the messages appear to be part of the discussion so they don't get deleted. They check back in a week or so to make sure the messages are still there, since they try to keep count of how many website references they've been able to place so they know when they've reached their goal.Our policy for signature spammers is to permanently suspend the account, then modify the signature link to be something bogus while not changing the visible part of the link. This will hopefully lead the signature spammer to believe they've successfully spammed us when they haven't, and will hopefully contribute to the eventual demise of this type of spamming.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

You were requested to stop posting to the thread because you wouldn't stop arguing about what the topic was while taking free shots about how biased board administration is, instead of discussing what I as moderator had carefully worked out with the originator to be the topic in the first 5 posts.Since no participants seem to accept any religious beliefs on faith there seems nothing left to discuss, except the definition of faith itself. If you'd like to discuss that then feel free to rejoin.Some interesting points were raised regarding the evidence supporting religious beliefs, and if someone would like to propose a topic to discuss these I'll promote it as quickly as I can. If someone can boil down the most relevant points made by Rahvin in Message 140 and the rebuttal by Bertot in Message 142 into something of reasonable length, I think that would be a good starting point.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Thanks for letting us know, Nosy and I evidently both promoted the thread at the same time, which raises the question, what's he doing up at 5:30 AM? My promotion went through first, and promotion automatically closes the thread proposal, so Nosy ended up promoting a closed thread proposal which means the promoted version of the thread was closed, too, so I deleted that version.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

If moderation at EvC Forum seems biased and unfair to you then I suggest finding another venue. Moderation itself isn't up for discussion. Please keep in mind that all permanent suspensions are indeed permanent. Not one has been reversed in the year since the policy change.With someone else I might be more forthcoming, but I've never had much success explaining anything to you, and seeing no indication that this time would be any different I demur from any such attempts.Edited by Admin, : Grammar.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Yes, Buz, you are a problem, because you don't understand much of what is said. For example, what was it about this that you didn't understand from my Message 32: In other words, you're free to discuss precisely what you want to discuss as long as you do it in threads where it's on-topic. EvC Forum works hard to keep threads on-topic. You've been here a long time and you know this. There's nothing wrong with what you want to discuss except that it's not the topic of that thread.If you want a fresh thread to discuss exactly the topic you want to discuss then all you have to do is propose a thread. I've said this here, and I've said this at the thread in question, but for some reason you have ignored this and instead keep accusing me of bias and unfairness. This isn't rational behavior. All you have to do is propose a thread for what you want to discuss, and as soon as I promote it you'll be off on your merry way, but instead you're wasting moderator time in this thread.That was your last post about this, okay? One more and I will suspend you permanently.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

The moderation team hasn't discussed this thread among themselves at all, but I feel safe in saying that I think the moderation team recognizes a need to put that thread on a more rational footing but doesn't see any effective approaches at present.But Ericp has displayed a propensity for ignoring responses he doesn't like by engaging in spurious accusations of misbehavior and in ad hominem (I've been referred to as an idiot myself), and concerning this kind of behavior we're on solid ground regarding the Forum Guidelines and pretty much know what to do.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Buz, see Message 182.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Homunculus is misinformed on many topics, and he complicates this with resourceful and determined rebuttals. He also fits the common pattern of a relatively new member who quickly burns himself out. If he sticks around then we'll gradually increase the pressure on him to use correct terminology and get his facts straight, except in threads specifically designated for discussing such issues.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Thanks, guys, signature spammer taken care of, I've notified Linc Energy about it.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Gee, two in one night, that's a first. No, I missed that one, thanks again!

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Buz, here's another perspective.I don't think you're reading for comprehension. I'll provide just one example, about this from Dr Jones' Message 335: You say that he's attacking you as a liar and implying you're a racist. What he's actually saying is that your logic makes as little sense as someone concluding you're a liar and racist like the KKK. If you don't like the example he used then it's your own fault because you've failed to understand his points when he was making them less, uh, pointedly.It is common for people to up the intensity by making their arguments more graphic when the original form of their arguments are not understood, and this is what I see happening in that thread.Both science and religion are subject to all the weaknesses of men. There's no branch of science and no sect of religion for which this isn't true, but they are both successful in bringing men closer to their respective truths. If you take a position about your religion that is contrary to both common sense and the evidence of history, then you have to expect a somewhat rough ride.Edited by Admin, : Spelling.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Sorry, Buz, I'm with AdminNosy on this one. I was just trying to explain things for you. You can't expect to conduct yourself as you do and not expect people to respond accordingly. The fact that moderators are unable to convince you that you have a problem does not mean that we'll ignore our moderator responsibilities when it comes to you.You're old enough to remember an old TV show called Barney Miller. A common theme was recently arrested people expressing bewilderment that someone could take exception to what they saw as exemplary behavior. You've got the same blind spot. If you continue your frustrating behavior then you'll just have to suffer the consequences.Please, no more inquiries. I've never been able to make you understand anything, there's no reason this time will be any different.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director