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# Noah's Ark volume calculation

Author Topic:   Noah's Ark volume calculation
ICANT
Member (Idle past 165 days)
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From: SSC
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 Message 31 of 347 (490188) 12-02-2008 10:43 PM Reply to: Message 23 by kuresu12-02-2008 7:37 AM

Re: Ark Size
Hi kuresu,
kuresu writes:
Keep in mind, if the ark had 96k sq.ft, as one creo just argued in this thread,
There is a caculator Here that will caculate the size of the ark for you.
Using Noah's cubits rounded down to even feet, the ark would be 507 feet long 84 feet wide and 50 feet high.
Each floor would have 42,588 sq. ft.
An American football field has 48,000 sq. ft.
The Ark had a lower floor, a second floor and a third floor below the main deck the door was on.
If each of this had 9 ft. ceilings with 1 ft. added for the floor you would still have a 20 ft. ceiling on the main deck which you could build a lot of rooms in.
You have 170,352 sq. ft. of floor space or the equivlant of over 3 1/2 football fields. Plus what you would gain when you built the rooms on the main deck.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

 This message is a reply to: Message 23 by kuresu, posted 12-02-2008 7:37 AM kuresu has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 35 by obvious Child, posted 12-03-2008 1:11 AM ICANT has replied Message 36 by killinghurts, posted 12-03-2008 2:03 AM ICANT has replied Message 45 by kuresu, posted 12-03-2008 4:51 AM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 165 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007

 Message 32 of 347 (490193) 12-02-2008 10:58 PM Reply to: Message 30 by killinghurts12-02-2008 9:42 PM

Re-if possible
Hi killinghurts,
killinghurts writes:
I'd prefer to have an answer from somewhere in the bible, if possible!
The Bible does not tell you how many animals or what size they were.
But that really is no real problem as far as God is concerned.
He has already created these animals at least two times. Once in the beginning, and then again in Genesis 1:2 - Genesis 2:3.
What folks that don't believe in God don't understand about those of us who believe Genesis 1:1 is that if God can do that then everything else is childs play.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

 This message is a reply to: Message 30 by killinghurts, posted 12-02-2008 9:42 PM killinghurts has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 33 by NosyNed, posted 12-02-2008 11:10 PM ICANT has replied Message 37 by killinghurts, posted 12-03-2008 2:09 AM ICANT has replied

NosyNed
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 Message 33 of 347 (490194) 12-02-2008 11:10 PM Reply to: Message 32 by ICANT12-02-2008 10:58 PM

God's Play
What folks that don't believe in God don't understand about those of us who believe Genesis 1:1 is that if God can do that then everything else is childs play.
We understand perfectly. What you are forgetting is that the "creation scientists" are saying that all of this (along with many other things) are scientifically possible without invoking miracles.
That is why they moved the definition of "kind" from species (as it is clearly meant to be in the bible) to higher taxa (and variable levels) a few decades ago. They had to do that to make it possible to fit them all on the ark. (as well as handle observed speciation -facts caught up with them.) (in fact, since the move they've never managed to define kind in anything but a hand-waving fuzzy way because they got bringing chimps (etc.) and humans into one kind.
You just wiped out all of answersingenesis, the creation research institute and a few 1,000 web sites reasons for existing. You agree with the rationalists that the ark is impossible within the universe as we understand it.
Edited by NosyNed, : added a line

 This message is a reply to: Message 32 by ICANT, posted 12-02-2008 10:58 PM ICANT has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 41 by Peg, posted 12-03-2008 4:26 AM NosyNed has replied Message 62 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 2:54 PM NosyNed has replied

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 Message 34 of 347 (490198) 12-03-2008 12:29 AM Reply to: Message 30 by killinghurts12-02-2008 9:42 PM

Let's hear it from the horses mouth.
Before this analysis goes too far, lets make sure that we have all our facts straight, and the facts, of course, are those laid out for us in the inerrant words of genesis. First, as to the number of birds, Gen 7:03 tells us "Of fowls of the air by sevens...", not just two pair for all the birds. It would seem that all birds are considered to be like clean beasts. But the real kicker is that Noah was commanded, according to Gen 7:08 & Gen 7:14 to gather pairs of "...every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth..." (For some reason, that phrase always reminds me of a blind date I once had.) And since Noah "found grace in the eyes of the lord" - (Gen 6:08) he would certainly have followed that command. So, now we have all the kinds of insects, worms, reptiles, amphibians, etc. that creepeth upon the earth.
Some bible apologists who believe not the words of the holy scriptures make up a story that many of these kinds were not brought to the ark, but survived by finding refuge on floating rafts of logs, flotsam, or other floating debris. But then Noah would have been disobeying the words of the lord by not gathering all those critters to the arc. But Gen 6:09 tells us: "Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. " and would never disobey god. Besides, Gen 7:05 says: "And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.". Also, Gen 7:04 lays any doubt to rest when god tells Noah: "every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth"; and Gen 7:21 & :22 "And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man. All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died." So there can be no doubt, unless we are to reject the stories of the bible as silly mythes, that all "kinds" that are alive on the earth today had pairs of ancestors on the ark. There are over 80,000 species of nematode worms. But Noah and his family would have had a rather easy time with 15,000 of these species since they are parasitic and would have come aboard on other animals. Noah would just have to have been careful to select infected animals to start with. Insects presented an even greater labor of love for Noah and his family.
The real question that the Noatic flood presents is: If "God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. " (Gen 6:05 & :06), why did he take it out on all the ignorant beasts and creepy-crawly things? Why did he kill off all those cute little bunny rabbits, kitty cats, and puppy dogs? What does this tell us about the most benevolent and merciful lord? The bible lays out god's modus operandi very clearly when it comes to his preference for killing things: He likes asphyxiation, whether it be through smoke inhalation (fire and brimstone, i. e., sulphur fumes), slow strangulation (as in crucifixion), or drowning. So, perhaps god was just staying in character with this flood extravaganza.
The final fact worth noting is that the oldest generation of ancestors of all living humans was of course Noah and his wife. The next generation of our ancestors were Noah's three sons and their wives. But the generation after that, the third generation of all our ancestors, were people who married and had children by their first cousins. This probably goes a long way in explaining the current human condition.

 This message is a reply to: Message 30 by killinghurts, posted 12-02-2008 9:42 PM killinghurts has not replied

obvious Child
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 Message 35 of 347 (490199) 12-03-2008 1:11 AM Reply to: Message 31 by ICANT12-02-2008 10:43 PM

Re: Ark Size
You forgot something quite vital. And something that could lead to a huge number of deaths if done today in construction.
To support 42,588 sq. ft. of 1 foot thick floors, you'd need a huge amount of support beams. Start throwing on animals and supplies and the necessary load bearing beams exponentially increase. It's not like you can just lay down 1 foot of 42,588 sq. ft. and then start loading. And it gets worse when the previous layer has to carry the load of the next floor. There's a reason why high rises today start with huge concrete foundations with massive steel support beams anchored to bedrock. The foundation for the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur had something like 500 concrete truck's worth of concrete for their foundations (they poured from 12 midnight to something like 12 in the afternoon the next day, something truly insane). 120-meter foundations to be precise of reinforced concrete. You lose a lot of space to support beams, especially when the beams are made of wood which has a lower load bearing capacity then reinforced concrete, especially gopher wood. Much of that space, especially on the lower floors would have be devoted to support beams. That also increases the weight load resulting in necessary reinforcement of the hull.

 This message is a reply to: Message 31 by ICANT, posted 12-02-2008 10:43 PM ICANT has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 64 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 3:23 PM obvious Child has replied

killinghurts
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 Message 36 of 347 (490201) 12-03-2008 2:03 AM Reply to: Message 31 by ICANT12-02-2008 10:43 PM

Re: Ark Size
quote:
There is a caculator Here that will caculate the size of the ark for you.
Using Noah's cubits rounded down to even feet, the ark would be 507 feet long 84 feet wide and 50 feet high.
Each floor would have 42,588 sq. ft.
An American football field has 48,000 sq. ft.
The Ark had a lower floor, a second floor and a third floor below the main deck the door was on.
If each of this had 9 ft. ceilings with 1 ft. added for the floor you would still have a 20 ft. ceiling on the main deck which you could build a lot of rooms in.
You have 170,352 sq. ft. of floor space or the equivlant of over 3 1/2 football fields. Plus what you would gain when you built the rooms on the main deck.
God Bless,
Hello ICANT, can I (or should I say CANI lol) please have this calculation in volume (i.e cubic feet) so I can add it to the list.
Thanks!

 This message is a reply to: Message 31 by ICANT, posted 12-02-2008 10:43 PM ICANT has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 67 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 3:44 PM killinghurts has replied

killinghurts
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Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008

 Message 37 of 347 (490202) 12-03-2008 2:09 AM Reply to: Message 32 by ICANT12-02-2008 10:58 PM

Re: Re-if possible
quote:
The Bible does not tell you how many animals or what size they were.
But that really is no real problem as far as God is concerned.
He has already created these animals at least two times. Once in the beginning, and then again in Genesis 1:2 - Genesis 2:3.
What folks that don't believe in God don't understand about those of us who believe Genesis 1:1 is that if God can do that then everything else is childs play.
Hi ICANT, I am making the assumption that the animals that existed on the Arc ark were *exactly* the same type of animals that we see today, or have seen extinct since the flood.
I make this assumption because:
Evolution (or change over time) does not occur in animals according to creationism - therefore they cannot progressively get bigger over the generations.
Is that a reasonable assumption?

 This message is a reply to: Message 32 by ICANT, posted 12-02-2008 10:58 PM ICANT has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 42 by Peg, posted 12-03-2008 4:30 AM killinghurts has not replied Message 68 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 3:53 PM killinghurts has replied

Peg
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 Message 38 of 347 (490204) 12-03-2008 3:50 AM Reply to: Message 19 by Larni12-02-2008 6:19 AM

Re: How many 'species' on the ark?
Hi Larni,
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.mar-eco.no/learning-zone/backgrounders/geology/plate_tectonics
if the story of noah is true, then that explains why there is so much water on the earth... lets just say that before the flood, most of the water was not on earth, but as the bible says in the atmospher above the earth, then animals at that time would not have been restricted geographically by location
also, it was only a few thousand years ago that the Papua New Guinea people immigrated to the norhtern tip of australia...and they walked here! So we have recent evidence of a much higher sea floor then it is today
Mar-Eco writes:
"Two hundred million years ago the Atlantic Ocean was just a small bay between the continents of Africa, Europe, and the Americas. Now it is a huge ocean. The mid-Atlantic Ridge spreading centre that runs north-south beneath the Atlantic Ocean has been adding about 24km of new crust every million years, with the result that the Atlantic Ocean is now almost 5000km wide."

 This message is a reply to: Message 19 by Larni, posted 12-02-2008 6:19 AM Larni has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 44 by kuresu, posted 12-03-2008 4:45 AM Peg has replied Message 51 by Larni, posted 12-03-2008 7:10 AM Peg has replied

Peg
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Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
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 Message 39 of 347 (490205) 12-03-2008 4:12 AM Reply to: Message 24 by DevilsAdvocate12-02-2008 12:09 PM

Re: great topic
The class Mammalia (mammals) contains 1117 genera (4629 species) and Aves (birds) contain 2050 genera (9,648 species). This gives us a grand total of 3167 "types" of creeping, crawling, walking and flying terrestrial creatures.
this might be true today, but how do we know how many genre's were around 6 thousand years ago? Do we know with any certainty??
there is only 1 human species on earth, yet the variety is vast...there is black/white/red/bronze skins... there are asians/afro/european... the sizes range from tiny pygmies to small asians to med europeans to large islanders...
my understanding is that the animal 'Kinds' meant the animals who could breed together

 This message is a reply to: Message 24 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-02-2008 12:09 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

Peg
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 Message 40 of 347 (490206) 12-03-2008 4:21 AM Reply to: Message 30 by killinghurts12-02-2008 9:42 PM

Gen6:18-21 writes:
18And I do establish my covenant with you; and you must go into the ark, you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you. 19And of every living creature of every sort of flesh, two of each, you will bring into the ark to preserve them alive with you. Male and female they will be. 20Of the flying creatures according to their kinds and of the domestic animals according to their kinds, of all moving animals of the ground according to their kinds, two of each will go in there to you to preserve them alive. 21And as for you, take for yourself every sort of food that is eaten; and you must gather it to yourself, and it must serve as food for you and for them.”
some have suggested that there could have been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today.
The Encyclopedia Americana indicate that there are upwards of 1,300,000 species of animals. (1977, Vol. 1, pp. 859-873) However, over 60 percent of these are insects. Breaking these figures down further, of the 24,000 amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals, 10,000 are birds, 9,000 are reptiles and amphibians, many of which could have survived outside the ark, and only 5,000 are mammals, including whales and porpoises, which would have also remained outside the ark. Other researchers estimate that there are only about 290 species of land mammals larger than sheep and about 1,360 smaller than rats
if these estimates are anything to go by, then there would have been plenty of room on a ship the size of the titanic to house them.

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Peg
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 Message 41 of 347 (490207) 12-03-2008 4:26 AM Reply to: Message 33 by NosyNed12-02-2008 11:10 PM

Re: God's Play
NosyNed writes:
since the move they've never managed to define kind in anything but a hand-waving fuzzy way because they got bringing chimps (etc.) and humans into one kind.
if Man and Chimp were of the same kind or species, then they should be able to breed
if they cant breed, then they cannot be the same species
this is what a 'kind' implies.... that it is of the same species and if its of the same species, it should be able to breed

 This message is a reply to: Message 33 by NosyNed, posted 12-02-2008 11:10 PM NosyNed has replied

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Peg
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From: melbourne, australia
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 Message 42 of 347 (490208) 12-03-2008 4:30 AM Reply to: Message 37 by killinghurts12-03-2008 2:09 AM

Re: Re-if possible
killinghurts writes:
Evolution (or change over time) does not occur in animals according to creationism - therefore they cannot progressively get bigger over the generations.
Is that a reasonable assumption?
not really
have you ever seen what happens to a domestic cat or pig when it starts breeding in the wild??? I've seen feral cats that were bigger then my medium sized dog... and we can see how wild pigs grow to huge sizes
so animals can definitely get bigger under certain conditions.

 This message is a reply to: Message 37 by killinghurts, posted 12-03-2008 2:09 AM killinghurts has not replied

cavediver
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 Message 43 of 347 (490209) 12-03-2008 4:33 AM Reply to: Message 41 by Peg12-03-2008 4:26 AM

Re: God's Play
if Man and Chimp were of the same kind or species, then they should be able to breed
if they cant breed, then they cannot be the same species
And many belive that they can breed - and some suggest that they have indeed been bred! Please see this Wiki page for details

 This message is a reply to: Message 41 by Peg, posted 12-03-2008 4:26 AM Peg has not replied

kuresu
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 Message 44 of 347 (490212) 12-03-2008 4:45 AM Reply to: Message 38 by Peg12-03-2008 3:50 AM

Re: How many 'species' on the ark?
Well, you see, there was this thing known as an ice age. Four thousand years ago Sweden and Norway did not exist. They were under a continental glacier. Canada did not exist, as it was under a glacier as well. In fact, a good chunk of the US was under ice as well.
With all that ice, there was less water, so lower sea levels.
There is no evidence of an overall higher sea floor, but rather, a lower sea level.
As to the atlantic, there's something you should know. Basaltic rock is more dense than granitic, so it settles at a lower level. Given that geologic processes occur under water, it is to be expected that there are difference (plateaus, etc), but there is a fairly uniform oceanic depth of something like 3 miles.

 This message is a reply to: Message 38 by Peg, posted 12-03-2008 3:50 AM Peg has replied

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kuresu
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 Message 45 of 347 (490213) 12-03-2008 4:51 AM Reply to: Message 31 by ICANT12-02-2008 10:43 PM

Re: Ark Size
I was assuming peq was right in his figures, because it was his argument.
Using your figures, that comes out to 27 sq. ft. per organism on the ark.
That is double the amount of room per organism, but it doesn't do you any good.
Peq had each animal in a 4x4 enclosure. You have each animal in a 5.3x5.3 enclosure.
Naturally, this is idealized, as not every organism is the same size, but given the food requirements, I still don't see how its going to happen.

 This message is a reply to: Message 31 by ICANT, posted 12-02-2008 10:43 PM ICANT has not replied

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