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Author Topic:   Noah's Ark volume calculation
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 61 of 347 (490283)
12-03-2008 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by johnfolton
12-03-2008 10:47 AM


Amen likely too floating mats of vegetation in the southern hemisphere given biblically it was summer thru much of the flood in the southern hemisphere.
If you are saying that the lands of the Bible are located in the Southern Hemisphere (I think that is what you are saying), than you are dead wrong. All the lands of the Bible i.e. Palestine, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc. are all located in the northern hemisphere not the southern. How do you know when the flood occured i.e. summer, spring, winter?

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by johnfolton, posted 12-03-2008 10:47 AM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by johnfolton, posted 12-03-2008 4:28 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 62 of 347 (490288)
12-03-2008 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by NosyNed
12-02-2008 11:10 PM


Re: God's Play
Hi Ned,
First off you know I don't care what anyone says about what the Bible says. It only matters what God said.
NoseyNed writes:
You agree with the rationalists that the ark is impossible within the universe as we understand it.
I agree that it is impossible according to the natural man's understanding and knowledge.
I Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
It is not impossible according to the spiritual man's understanding.
If God can speak this universe into existence and then create all the animals in it, why would He have a problem with repopulating the earth after a flood?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by NosyNed, posted 12-02-2008 11:10 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by NosyNed, posted 12-03-2008 3:03 PM ICANT has replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 63 of 347 (490290)
12-03-2008 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by ICANT
12-03-2008 2:54 PM


Re: God's Play
I agree that it is impossible according to the natural man's understanding and knowledge.
Fine, then we have no argument with each other. You are entitled to believe whatever you want as long as it doesn't impinge on anyone else.
Please go tell that to the creation "scientists" and the IDists then who are trying to claim that they are actually doing science and want to bugger about with science classes.
If God can speak this universe into existence and then create all the animals in it, why would He have a problem with repopulating the earth after a flood?
Agreed. Given you assumptions then anything is possible. This is your religion and I agree that you are entitled to it. However, Goddidit is not an explanation for anything and has nothing at all to do with a rational understanding of the physical universe we live in.
So there is no science at all in your view of reality.
However, worse than that (from a believers perspective) there is very bad theology in your claim. You are claiming that God not only used a variety of miracles to make the flood possible as described in the Bible but that he arranged these miracles in a careful fashion to make it appear as if the flood did not happen and could not happen as described.
He then, crafty fellow that he is, also left out the details of this slight-of-hand (some would even call it deception) from the Book.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 2:54 PM ICANT has replied

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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 64 of 347 (490291)
12-03-2008 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by obvious Child
12-03-2008 1:11 AM


Re: Ark Size
Hi obvious,
obivious Child writes:
You forgot something quite vital.
I didn't know I was supposed to give a detailed drawing of the ark.
I thought we were only trying to determine the capacity of the ark.
Neither did I say the floor was 1 foot thick. I said it left 1 ft. for the floor. That would be the floor boards and the supporting timbers.
And yes I do understand what would be involved in building such a vessel. I have built exchanges where two interstate highways intersect. I have also built buildings over 50 ft. tall.
You are concerned with the vessel standing up under the weight. My concern would also be to keep the vessel from being crushed by the pressure of the water from the outside. That is probably why 3 lower floors were specified as they would have been below the waterline.
There were rooms to be built on these floors that would have supporting walls for the floors.
My biggest problem in designing the ark would be ventilation of the lower floors. The ones that would be below the waterline. Another problem for me is not knowing the weight of the material used to construct the ark. Not to mention the weight of the cargo.
If I had access to the prints Noah had to build the ark by then I would be able to know how those things were accomplished.
I do know the design size is correct as that is what we still use to build ships today.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by obvious Child, posted 12-03-2008 1:11 AM obvious Child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by kuresu, posted 12-03-2008 3:42 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 77 by obvious Child, posted 12-03-2008 7:19 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 65 of 347 (490293)
12-03-2008 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by NosyNed
12-03-2008 3:03 PM


Re: God's Play
Hi Ned,
NoseyNed writes:
Please go tell that to the creation "scientists" and the IDists then who are trying to claim that they are actually doing science and want to bugger about with science classes.
I have been telling them for 45 years.
They don't listen. They like everybody else know what they believe and don't want to be bothered with the facts.
NoseyNed writes:
However, worse than that (from a believers perspective) there is very bad theology in your claim.
Ned you know from our conversations in the past that I do have answers as to how God did it. You don't agree with me and that is fine.
But don't accuse me of having very bad theology.
But as far as this thread I will not drag it into a discussion of my theological views of how the flood took place and why you can't find your huge columns of silt that YEC'S have led many to believe would exist if such a flood took place.
NoseyNed writes:
He then, crafty fellow that he is, also left out the details of this slight-of-hand (some would even call it deception) from the Book.
He gave us everything we need to be able to come to a knowledge of Him so we could seek after Him and serve Him.
Just because some are not convinced does not mean that He did not give us all we needed.
Why should He explain everything to our satisfaction?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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 Message 63 by NosyNed, posted 12-03-2008 3:03 PM NosyNed has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 66 of 347 (490294)
12-03-2008 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by ICANT
12-03-2008 3:23 PM


Re: Ark Size
If you want to know how to build a wooden ship that big, I would take a look at the treasure ships used by Zheng He.
While the size of these ships are most likely exaggerated:
Treasure ship - Wikipedia
Reportedly up to 450 ft long, 180 ft wide, four decks.
I do believe that's ark-like.
Of course, there is a vast difference between building a wooden ship of this size and a steel ship of this size. One can actually survive in the ocean--steel.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 3:23 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by johnfolton, posted 12-03-2008 4:35 PM kuresu has replied
 Message 79 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 9:25 PM kuresu has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 67 of 347 (490295)
12-03-2008 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by killinghurts
12-03-2008 2:03 AM


Re: Ark Size
Hi killinghurts,
killinghurts writes:
Hello ICANT, can I (or should I say CANI lol) please have this calculation in volume (i.e cubic feet) so I can add it to the list.
Length times width times height equals cubit ft.
507 x 84 x 50 = 2,129,400 cubic feet.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by killinghurts, posted 12-03-2008 2:03 AM killinghurts has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by killinghurts, posted 12-03-2008 6:25 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 68 of 347 (490297)
12-03-2008 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by killinghurts
12-03-2008 2:09 AM


Re-if possible
Hi killinghurts,
killinghurts writes:
Evolution (or change over time) does not occur in animals according to creationism - therefore they cannot progressively get bigger over the generations.
The creationist you are talking about was not raised on a farm.
But according to the Bible there would have to have been a lot of fowl, cattle, and creeping things on the ark. Those are the ones mentioned. That does not say everything.
The ones God wanted on the ark came to the ark and Noah allowed them to go into the ark. Whatever showed up.
You say, what about the rest?
No details are given.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by killinghurts, posted 12-03-2008 2:09 AM killinghurts has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by killinghurts, posted 12-03-2008 6:33 PM ICANT has replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 69 of 347 (490302)
12-03-2008 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by DevilsAdvocate
12-03-2008 2:24 PM


Amen likely too floating mats of vegetation in the southern hemisphere given biblically it was summer thru much of the flood in the southern hemisphere.
How do you know when the flood occured i.e. summer, spring, winter?
If you want to know just read the bible! The answer to this question is in the book of genesis. right?
P.S. Don't take my Word for it read the bible yourself to see when the bible says it happened.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Heres a free bible for you to download!
e-Sword: Free Bible Study for the PC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-03-2008 2:24 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-03-2008 6:49 PM johnfolton has replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 70 of 347 (490303)
12-03-2008 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by kuresu
12-03-2008 3:42 PM


Re: Ark Size
Of course, there is a vast difference between building a wooden ship of this size and a steel ship of this size. One can actually survive in the ocean--steel.
The answers in the book of genesis its says they had iron and brass technology in Noahs days. right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by kuresu, posted 12-03-2008 3:42 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by kuresu, posted 12-03-2008 5:11 PM johnfolton has replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 71 of 347 (490310)
12-03-2008 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by johnfolton
12-03-2008 4:35 PM


Re: Ark Size
Let's see, when was the bronze age? For Noah's region of the world, it was from 3300 B.C.E. to 1200 B.C.E.
The iron age was from 1300 B.C.E. to 600 B.C.E.
Roughly speaking, of course. Now then, assuming the flood ocurred 4,000 years ago, that would be 2000 B.C.E. Which puts it squarely in the bronze age.
Unless Noah was ahead of the rest of the region by 800 years, the ark would have been built without iron.
Time issues aside, God commands Noah to build it out of gopher wood, right? No mention of metal supports. Further, even a wooden ship with steel supports is troublesome. Check out the HMS Orlando for a read on that. It is not as large as the ark is purported to be, being a mere 336 ft long. Given that it was a warship, I daresay that the weight strains on it were quite comparable to what the ark had to endure. The HMS Orlando would have destroyed itself without steel structural reinforcements.
The ark, quite simply, would have collapsed in on itself without metal constructs. If god can tell noah what size to build the ark, and what wood to use, why wouldn't he say what metals as well?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by johnfolton, posted 12-03-2008 4:35 PM johnfolton has replied

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 72 of 347 (490313)
12-03-2008 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by kuresu
12-03-2008 5:11 PM


Re: Ark Size
Unless Noah was ahead of the rest of the region by 800 years
The bible says they had iron and bronze in Noahs day. Do a word search for Tubalcain.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
Here's a bible so you can check it out.
e-Sword: Free Bible Study for the PC
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 73 of 347 (490314)
12-03-2008 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by johnfolton
12-03-2008 6:06 PM


Re: Ark Size
The bible says they had iron and bronze in Noahs day.
And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. - Judges 1:19
They just didn't know how to build stuff with iron....a thousand years after Noah.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

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 Message 72 by johnfolton, posted 12-03-2008 6:06 PM johnfolton has not replied

killinghurts
Member (Idle past 4993 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 74 of 347 (490315)
12-03-2008 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by ICANT
12-03-2008 3:44 PM


Re: Ark Size
quote:
Length times width times height equals cubit ft.
507 x 84 x 50 = 2,129,400 cubic feet.
God Bless,
Hi ICANT, this is about one and a half times the average calculation specified by the other people in this thread - can you explain the difference?
Edited by killinghurts, : grammar

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 3:44 PM ICANT has replied

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killinghurts
Member (Idle past 4993 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 75 of 347 (490316)
12-03-2008 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by ICANT
12-03-2008 3:53 PM


Re: Re-if possible
quote:
The creationist you are talking about was not raised on a farm.
But according to the Bible there would have to have been a lot of fowl, cattle, and creeping things on the ark. Those are the ones mentioned. That does not say everything.
The ones God wanted on the ark came to the ark and Noah allowed them to go into the ark. Whatever showed up.
You say, what about the rest?
No details are given.
God Bless,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the purpose of the flood to kill off everything *except* the entities aboard the Ark?
It would stand to reason then, that *every* non-marine entity we see today (or has been seen since) *must* have been on the Ark. What other reasonable explanation is there?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2008 3:53 PM ICANT has replied

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