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Member (Idle past 4951 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Viagra & Evolution | |||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hey Peg, interesting question
except that its seen in men as young as their early 20's 1 australian site says that almost 10% of sufferers are in their 20's That still leaves plenty of males to fertilize females, so evolutionarily speaking it would not normally be a problem. Only if you combine this with a behavior pattern of mating can it result in decreased birth rates. Of course one very simple explanation is that it is a reaction to overpopulation. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Thanks subbie
I'm reminded of something I heard, quite some time ago, about an experiment were researchers kept mice in extremely over crowded conditions and discovered that some of the mice became sexually attracted to members of the same sex. Yes, that is what I was thinking of originally. Wonder if there was any affect on fertility as well, or would "erectile dysfunction" be a result of mental response to this same pattern in a homophobic society? Or it could just be a similar mutation to "disable" breeding when population density became high. Also it may not be genetic but developmental, due to high hormone levels at certain stages of development caused by population\breeding stress on parents\mothers.
... , in effect, evolution is operating to the detriment of some individuals in favor of the rest of the population? Except that the population as a whole can benefit. Consider a third "sex" such as worker bees, that allows for a large population with fewer breeders competing for mates.
It seems counter intuitive. Which of course is no rebuttal to the concept. Consider that our social institutions have made survival of many extreme variations less problematic, so that they in effect become neutral in our ecology. Such a variation could be ages old, and a recessive gene (see Rrhain's comments) Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Thanks Granny Magda
What would the mechanism be? What cues would "tell" the body that it is living in an overpopulated environment? Rather than genetic, they could be developmental changes due to hormones and stress. People talk about stress levels in teens being high, and this is when sexuality matures. It could be something like the cues that tell non-alpha males and females in packs that they are not the breeders - look at gorillas and male dominance, if you want one close to home.
but it is hard to see how individuals living in cities are any more crowded than those who have lived in urban environments for centuries. Imagine this is your morning commute, every day.
The last from College of Humanities and Sciences — Virginia Commonwealth University
quote: What would be interesting would be to see if there is a correlation between incidence and population density. Another interesting thing would be to compare countries to see if there is a correlation across country borders or if there is another variable involved (like the amount of chemicals in our diet compared to Europe) Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : changed last picture by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hey Ned,
Just exploring an hypothesis here,
If this sort of "crowding" mechanism works in humans I think it would have to be because we've carried it from waaaaaay back in our evolutionary past. That is one possibility. Gorillas have a dominant male pattern, so it is possible that this is a shared ancient trait. But it is also possible that it is a new trait caused by developmental cues rather than genetics - stress and hormones affecting development at critical stages, such as reaching sexual maturity. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Well, if you see everything humans do as natural, then of course, yes, you are right. I don't, so I guess we'll just have to differ in opinion here, as there really isn't an argument that will convince either and this basically come down to semantics then. Whether the behavior of humans is natural or not, there are several aspects that are relevant: (1) this is learned behavior, and only applies to humans that have learned it or where the learning is incorporated into their society. There are places in the world where this learned behavior is not applicable - they have not learned it (incorporated it into society). (2) selection on the basis of learned behavior is still selection. This still affects the change in hereditary traits from generation to generation, it just includes more variety in the {select for reproduction (if they survive)} group and has the effect of neutralizing otherwise deleterious traits. (3) remove the learned behavior and the benefit will cease, and populations will revert to selection based on survival and reproduction without such behavior. (4) we are approaching the threshold of being able to sort through genetic material of zygotes, and remove\replace known genetic disease sections. This will result in negative selection of those traits. (5) the (over)size of the population is more critical than medical ability to allow people to survive, and as long as people starve to death, or die without medical attention, then selection is operating based on natural "fitness" for those individuals. (6) diseases still cause (natural) selection, both in developed and undeveloped portions of the world, and the spread of disease is facilitated by the global economy and overpopulation, such that a local disease can easily become a global epidemic. Bird flu as an example. Personally, I think natural selection is alive and well in the human race, in spite of our efforts to neutralize it. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : clarity Edited by RAZD, : dblword by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
What steps, if any, would you be willing to accept for society to discourage them reproducing? But a phenotype is not defined by one gene, no matter how much that one gene may affect the development. The question is whether the whole phenotype must be selected against, or whether there is just one gene or one gene cluster. Taking Down Syndrome as an example:
Down Syndrome FAQsquote: All one needs do is restore the normal chromosome in the offspring to allow "normal" reproduction.
Let's have a bit of fun, and see if we can give the cdesign proponentists a little ammunition. It should also prove instructive for our creationist friends to explain how - if all mutations are loss of information - what is lost when this chromosome is duplicated Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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