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Author | Topic: The irresolvability of the creation/evolution debate | |||||||||||||||||||||||
DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3101 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
Thief writes: you don't catch on well Thief, It sounds like you just like the sound of your own voice. If you want to dabble in pseudoscientific gobbly gook go to an astrology forum. Otherwise put up or shut up. Stop with the idiotic giberish and provide substantiated evidence for whatever position your advocating. If college educated people can't understand a word you are saying, it means your argument (whatever it is) is not logically sound. Go back and try again. People are not going to waste their precious time trying to decipher your idiotic ramblings. We have better things to do with our time. Catch that! For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Dr. Carl Sagan
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Larni Member (Idle past 163 days) Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
It's as much as I could do not to take my EE-3 carbine to him/her.
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2697 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, Thief. Welcome to EvC, I guess.
thief writes: I'm seeking a bit more feed back If you’re interested in the thoughts of a young man with little real experience in either science or religion, let me provide you with my assessment as to why you’re not getting any feedback. In a logical debate, it’s customary to present a full argument at the beginning. That way, all parties are able to participate in a discussion and frame their arguments in a productive manner. In a way, you have done so. In Message 52, you claimed that you could harmonize Genesis and the Theory of Evolution. Since that point, however, you have kind of rambled back and forth about what Moses would think about a round earth, and how people are not warmly welcoming you here. And, yet, you are asking for feedback. Feedback on what? Moses demanding proof of a round earth? Or Genesis and the ToE? You've so far presented a handful of disjunct thoughts. I should think the insults to your sanity or clarity of thought would be the best feedback that could be offered given the circumstances. Can you deliver on your original promise to harmonize Genesis and Evolution, or do you intend to continue jerking people around for another couple hundred posts before finally tying the ramblings back to the original claim? The way you’re going, you come off as condescending. Everybody else has arguments that they would like the chance to present, as well, but your holding off on the presentation of your basic thesis in favor of slowly dragging your opponents through a ritualized sequence of questions that you’ve carefully crafted to reach the desired end that you’re not sharing with us, is robbing everybody else of their chance to actually participate in the discussion. If all you want is for somebody to answer your question or provide the feedback you're predicting so that you can move on, why not just ask and answer them yourself, so we can read the whole sequence to see what the point of it is, and not waste the limited number of posts we get per thread waiting until our turn to present a rebuttal? -Bluejay Darwin loves you.
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thief Junior Member (Idle past 5532 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
Did you take the time?
Genesis is what most creationists rely on to support their perspective Go back and read it again. I use this reference to show this to be so. Chapter Two does not defeat science Chapter one does not take away evolution The question is not about me The question is...are you scientific..do you recognize an experiment when you see one? Or do you prefer your Scripture 'as is' ?
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
This is a warning that you will have to:
1) stay on topic 2) be clear in your posts 3) do not post nonsense If you continue with your current posting pattern you will start to receive suspensions of gradually growing duration.
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thief Junior Member (Idle past 5532 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
Thank you
But to assume I ramble is incorrect That this particular viewpoint eludes the other participates doesn't place me at fault Perhaps a dialog...one on one would be better?
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2105 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Thank you But to assume I ramble is incorrect That this particular viewpoint eludes the other participates doesn't place me at fault Perhaps a dialog...one on one would be better? We need to figure out what you are saying. So far you are posting what appears to be a low grade of unassociated pseudo-mystical gibberish. Perhaps you could be more clear in your posts? That way your "particular viewpoint" might not elude us so badly. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2950 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Let's try something really different I will place you between myself and Moses I bid you to say to him Hey old man! you do not understand what hangs above your head... nor do you understand what lays beneath your feet. Take a hike! to the east..if you live long enough you will cross a huge territory (we now call Asia). When you reach the far side..build an ark..with sails.. cross the ocean (we now call Pacific)...abandon the ark and cross the land (we now call America)..build another ark, with sails..cross the ocean (we now call Atlantic)...if you stray not far off course (South America or Africa) you will soon be home again. At this point Moses would look you in the eye..and not with approval Say to him then...the stars above are not candles held steadfast by the angels. They are instead huge balls of flaming hot gas, far larger than the earth, and so distant the light of such things requires thousands of years to be seen by us. At this point Moses would likely pick up a rock. So too his many followers. And if you fail to turn quickly...run...never to be seen again you could end up under a pile of rock, dying from suffocation. But who is greater ...you or Moses? You know what hangs above your head. You know the earth is round For lack of proof..Moses would have you dead for such words But you know better...don't you? Unless Moses should change his mind you will not have peace with him. How scientific are you? Finally, poetic debating! Sorry guys but I'm loving this. Please digress good sir and continue your point. What happens next...?Do I tell Moses about blackholes yet..? Would that cause me to suffer more punishment because I don't have proof of them yet...? Edited by onifre, : No reason given. "All great truths begin as blasphemies" "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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thief Junior Member (Idle past 5532 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
I thank you for your most gracious reprieve.
I realize you offer no agreement, and you offer no support However, your allowance to me is most kind Apparently, the rest of this small gathering does not share your etiquette, nor do they possess well developed imaginations. Imagination is the problem solving portion of the mind Without such ability, possible solutions are elusive, and there maybe no problem that can be resolved I must have been too brief in previous text. I have already displayed the narrative of Genesis Chapter One to be something less than it should be. Chapter Two fairs no better. An argument favoring creationism cannot be supported out of Genesis. On the contrary, the events of Chapter Two are not events of magic or myth. They are events of manipulation As for Adam as a myth...Nay! Adam is the first son of God. Scripture says so, and on this point I offer no contest. It is simply that Adam was first to encounter a being greater than himself. To say 'nay' to this gives rise to another discussion...does God speak at all! He had to start somewhere. As for Eve...she is the one not having a navel!
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DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3101 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
Thief writes: Apparently, the rest of this small gathering does not share your etiquette, nor do they possess well developed imaginations. Alas, poor Thief,Who rambles on and on.. With nothing substantial to say, Who carries not a lucid thought, a bumbling moron. Further he writes with no point in site,With no poetic rhythm to display, Can you not give us some respite, Please refrain from your illogical melee. Your Adam myths are ludicrous,Nay, nor your creation fables hold water, Why continue on with such impetuousness, Your logic is ill founded. **Sorry, I could not resist** Just because we choose not to speak in riddles and rhymes all the time does not mean we do not have imaginations. It just means that speaking clearly and concisely is more productive to a logical discussion in a science forum. In other words, stop being a condescending jerk. Or as Shrek would say "Alright, you're going the right way for a smart bottom..." BTW, don't take this to personally. Everything I say is somewhat tongue and cheek. I do however despise hypocritical, self-righteous and condescending attitudes and so occassionally attempt to take some people down a few notches to remove the "I am more intelligent than you" attitude and allow us to discuss on a much more honest and balanced playing field so to speak. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given. For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Dr. Carl Sagan
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thief Junior Member (Idle past 5532 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
Some Devil's advocate you are.
I've been picking on the Genesis narrative, and Moses You were never the target! Previous dialog was offer to reduce the creationist crutch of Scripture Future dialog will be aimed at the scientist. Which one are you? Declare yourself!
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2105 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Previous dialog was offer to reduce the creationist crutch of Scripture Future dialog will be aimed at the scientist. Which one are you? Declare yourself! 1) It reduced me to laughter.2) I'm a scientist, bring it on--but do it elsewhere, as 3) This is entirely off topic for this thread. You should start a new thread so all of your nonsense could be kept in one convenient place. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3101 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
Some Devil's advocate you are. I've been picking on the Genesis narrative, and Moses You were never the target! Previous dialog was offer to reduce the creationist crutch of Scripture Future dialog will be aimed at the scientist. Which one are you? Declare yourself! Declare myself? What are you a prophet? It is difficult to decipher from your cryptic posts exactly what you are trying to do. I don't care if you are a Christian or an atheist or somewhere in between. What I do care about is, that this is a debate and discussion board and if you cannot adequately and coherently explain your point of view than you are veering this discussion (and other threads from what I have seen) off topic. That is all. Speeking cryptically does nothing to bolster your point of view. It just adds to the confusion. BTW, welcome to EvC. For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Dr. Carl Sagan
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thief Junior Member (Idle past 5532 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
So far I see plenty of complaint and no serious rebuttal
No creationist stepped up to say 'yeah or nay' And now I hear one scientist laughing as if his position is secure For evolution...what critique do you consider as proof?
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2697 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, Thief.
Since you disapprove of our already-existing DevilsAdvocate, let me try my hand at playing the part.
thief writes: An argument favoring creationism cannot be supported out of Genesis. I don't believe that you've actually shown this. Yes, you've certainly said it. So far, the only thing you've proven (with help from a volunteer from the audience) was that the order of creation does not match with the order put forth by science. But, this in no way says you can't make an argument favoring creationism from Genesis. If Genesis is all you're using, you certainly would make an argument favoring creationism. -----
thief writes: Imagination is the problem solving portion of the mind In many cases, imagination is also the problem-causing portion of the mind. -Bluejay Darwin loves you.
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