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Author Topic:   The Bible is literally true, but each detail is not.
Member (Idle past 3281 days)
Posts: 88
Joined: 07-07-2008

Message 76 of 88 (489126)
11-23-2008 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Peg
11-23-2008 6:47 PM

Re: Not directly on Topic here.
Why accept someones word such as coyote as scientific authority when they refuse to show their credentials or their work for the same scrutiny they apply to published works?

A fair analogy would be the Obama COLB issue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Peg, posted 11-23-2008 6:47 PM Peg has responded

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 Message 77 by Peg, posted 11-23-2008 7:18 PM IchiBan has responded

Member (Idle past 3273 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008

Message 77 of 88 (489127)
11-23-2008 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by IchiBan
11-23-2008 7:03 PM

Re: Not directly on Topic here.
hi ichiban,

im not sure what you mean about the obama colb issue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by IchiBan, posted 11-23-2008 7:03 PM IchiBan has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by IchiBan, posted 11-23-2008 9:35 PM Peg has responded

Member (Idle past 3281 days)
Posts: 88
Joined: 07-07-2008

Message 78 of 88 (489142)
11-23-2008 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Peg
11-23-2008 7:18 PM

Re: Not directly on Topic here.
The analogy would be similar to Barak Obama his birth origin and his refusal to release his birth certificate during the presidential campaign.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Peg, posted 11-23-2008 7:18 PM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Peg, posted 11-23-2008 9:47 PM IchiBan has not yet responded

Member (Idle past 3273 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008

Message 79 of 88 (489143)
11-23-2008 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by IchiBan
11-23-2008 9:35 PM

Re: Not directly on Topic here.
oh ok

we are all students i guess... none of us know it all

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by IchiBan, posted 11-23-2008 9:35 PM IchiBan has not yet responded

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 Message 80 by AdminNosy, posted 11-23-2008 11:21 PM Peg has not yet responded

Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003

Message 80 of 88 (489150)
11-23-2008 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Peg
11-23-2008 9:47 PM

This is not Chat
Peg, this is a discussion forum. We limit each thread at about 300 posts. Each post should have some reason to be created and should further the discussion.

Yours doesn't particularly. Thanks for watching that in future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Peg, posted 11-23-2008 9:47 PM Peg has not yet responded

Suspended Junior Member (Idle past 3940 days)
Posts: 8
From: Lakeland, FL USA
Joined: 11-30-2008

Message 81 of 88 (489870)
11-30-2008 2:54 PM

The Origin of God in theory and the universe thereof!
Incoherent material hidden. Peek at your own risk.
Let's get into RAI Real Artificial Intelligence technology. You may find it funny that it is star based. That's right the processor is a star a tiny one well balanced in fusion about the size of a ping pong ball. Though it is well-classified and top secret the technology exists to use a light projected (by the star) superconductor proccessor. It's RAM is high quality atomic mesh that refracts light and uses a light refraction from the star (in a feed loopback to the proccessor which can absorb light quite easily). This would generate a self programming loop based off of RAM.

Now let's get into the origin of God and the universe.

Let's say there was in the beggining nothing absolute zero. This would get so cold it would get hot instantaneously and grow in size. Now time is rather irrelevant at this point in time. IT WAS NEVER NOTHING. There was a spot of warmth or heat being generated by the incredible uniformity of the cold.

This would be the beggining of the first superstring. Now I say (in a humorous sense but with all seriousness) it finally calculated enough numbers (like the RAI system above) to reach adulthood or true sentience. Said smile I've got some ideas and begun creating huge amounts of hyper-light-matter superstrings. Making sense it was so cold it got hot and if that star above has an intelligence of it's own why can't this one gain it without sophisticated digital technology if it was surrounded by enough light to act as RAM. Doh! Didn't think a star could think did we. Didn't remember that something is around long enough and has the ability to count IT'S A SAPIENS LIFEFORM.

Let's say this smile I've got some ideas cause a rapid explosion of hyperlight matter superstrings to a google cubed power in AU that's Astronomical Units or the distance from the Earth to the Sun.

Now it's gravity and heat is so intense that antimatter forms on the Creation Wave. However like a star it has flares and is not totally symettrical. The antimatter finds itself attracted to a single spot on the periphery of the sphere after some time and this tiny little compact dot between the two new universes made of some incredibly dense matter as a doorway.

Now I"ve allready told you this thing can think. Who says it can't speak at some powerful level. It says let there be light. It goes through the matter and hits the huge antimatter pool. For all we know it could have generated an infinite Creation wave between that and the newer yet not as smart antimatter universe's intelligence saying darkness.

I believe the meeting of these two titanic though not equal cosmic forces of light and darkness (there was more light but the atomic weight of the antimatter universe was almost the same if not the same yet the light took up more volume and was less dense) created an infinite effect.

Not only that but if this Creation force (which I believe is still around known as God the Father) was trying to find a way to create a new lifeform might have been quick enough to predict the antimatter universe and everything else that happened and even analyzed down the molecule everything that was to happen till the point our favorite mutant Jesus Christ arrives from a virgin birth.

This would indicate the six days of Creation in the Bible are actually a blueprint for evolution and the reaction thereof.

Now let me get to the zany. For all we know this species is extince. Say there were hybrid plant animals called Treants or walking talking Trees that are Alive. In otherwords a Tree of Life. THe Genesis story makes it sound through folklore that the Tree of Life is extinct. Maybe at that point in primitive time Adam and Eve believed the Trees were God or at least his representatives on this planet because they predated everything.

We see a Tree cursing the legs off a snake right in front of Adam and Eve. Now heat and time are relative we have discovered. SO THE UNIVERSE COOLING OFF MEANS THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED IN LITERALLY IF YOU WERE STANDING THERE MILLIONS OF YEARS OF EVOLUTION THROUGH HIGHER RADIOACTIVITY MEANING MORE BENEFICIAL MUTATIOnS AS WELL AS MALIFICIENT ONES. It would have seemed just six days to God. Because even though up there in that realm of light with that original star that is God the Father still there.

Now as for the immaculate conception. Let's say this immense Universal Domino Effect Calculation this star did made it so a woman with the right DNA was laying at say a beach and was struck by a small particle of hyperlightmatter.

Now frogs in Africa can give virgin births. without a doubt the amphibian tree frog is our ancestor in evolution so for all we know she might have lucked out and had that one touch of DNA. The piece of hyperlightmatter strikes it and begins metosis. NOTICE I SAID METOSIS NOT MITOSIS. Because metosis happens first.

Not only that but there is a chance that her XX gene could have been sundered into two copies. AND XY AND AN XX. So Jesus could have had a twin. We are left looking at his supposed romantic acquaintance Mary Magdalene wondering.

Wife and sister?

Not only that but this mutation could have given him any number of powers yet we see a guiding Master Plan throughout all of it and an intelligence far beyond our own.

I agree with both sides and that traditional churches are far too concerned with not admitting that they might have been WRONG and there are two sides to every story.

So I propose this. To God the Father it was six days of work that went by quickly because of the rapid cooling of the universe. To us it would have seemed like time was moving faster then than it is now. Because heat and time are related through the laws of thermodynamics.

OK so looking at the scoreboard

Evolution-1 Creation-1


Edited by AdminNosy, : No reason given.

Junior Member (Idle past 3908 days)
Posts: 5
From: San Pueblo, Ca
Joined: 12-28-2008

Message 82 of 88 (492141)
12-28-2008 4:22 PM

It's hard to believe in some of it.
To the original poster and the topic of "The Bible is literally true, but each detail is not". I been there for the last two years, but as I now look at it, it's hard to believe. e.g
As you'll see in my notes, the 10 commandments are the heart and soul of the OT, so it appears to be a must to believe in that. But you have God in the same quote (practically) condoning slavery (Ex 21), see below. How can one believe truth in the mist of such horrible atrocities? Below are some of my notes from word pad that I got off some sites, that I'm sure you all heard before. I add my commentary to it to state why it's hard to believe in the Bible. Real hard. It appears to be either all or nothing, as you see in my commentary below. I'm sure there is some true history in it, but it appears to be real hard to believe in it's divine origin.
Many hold the belief the creator of this universe is a Genius, but can they believe such a genius, would say utter these words.

Exodus 32:27 Kill everyone, their brother & their neighbour!

27 Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

Exodus 21 Yahway tells us how to buy Slaves and how to keep them by holding his family hostaage!

Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them.
2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Yahway says slave beating is ok, as long as he doesn't die!
20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
What is scary here is that these words are basically in the same quote as the 10 commandments. Remember there were no chapter numbers in the original scrolls. This was a miscellaneous law given by Yahweh right after the 10 commandments. The 10 commandments has been the heart & soul of the old testament and it's law of God.

Leviticus 25 Yahway condones slavery!

44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Lev 26 Don't sin or Yahway will make you eat your kids!

I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.

Numbers 15:32-36 Yahway kills a Sabbath breaker (who had gathered sticks for a fire) is stoned to death!

35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Numbers 21 Leave none alive!

And the LORD said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people, and his land; and thou shalt do to him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon.
35 So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land

Numbers 25:4 Yahway orders human heads (off those already dead) and hung up against the sun!

4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.

Numbers 31 Keep the young girls alive for yourselves, but kill everyone else!

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. ..........

Deuteronomy 21 Marry a "beautiful"Captive woman (after she sees her brothers, mother & father killed Num 31) but shave her hair off!)

10 "When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her." Now that wouldn't be psychologically damaging to a young girl would it?

Deuteronomy 21 Animal cruelty! Chop a cows head off!

1 If one be found slain in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee to possess it, lying in the field, and it be not known who hath slain him:
2 Then thy elders and thy judges shall come forth, and they shall measure unto the cities which are round about him that is slain:
3 And it shall be, that the city which is next unto the slain man, even the elders of that city shall take an heifer, which hath not been wrought with, and which hath not drawn in the yoke;
4 And the elders of that city shall bring down the heifer unto a rough valley, which is neither eared nor sown, and shall strike off the heifer's neck there in the valley:
5 And the priests the sons of Levi shall come near; for them the LORD thy God hath chosen to minister unto him, and to bless in the name of the LORD; and by their word shall every controversy and every stroke be tried:
6 And all the elders of that city, that are next unto the slain man, shall wash their hands over the heifer that is beheaded in the valley:

Deuteronomy 22 Kill non virgin girls!

If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death.

Deuteronomy 23 No damaged balls before God!

He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD
(Re: Dt. chapters 21-23,...Dt.26:16 says these were God's statutes, "The LORD your God commands you this day to follow these decrees and laws; carefully observe them with all your heart and with all your soul".

Joshua 8 Killing them all!

1 Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged. Take the whole army with you, and go up and attack Ai. For I have delivered into your hands the king of Ai, his people, his city and his land. 2 You shall do to Ai and its king as you did to Jericho and its king, except that you may carry off their plunder and livestock for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city."
Joshua 10 Yahway commands to destroy all that breathes! Leave no survivors!
Then Joshua and all Israel with him turned around and attacked Debir. 39 They took the city, its king and its villages, and put them to the sword. Everyone in it they totally destroyed. They left no survivors. They did to Debir and its king as they had done to Libnah and its king and to Hebron.
40 So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all their kings. He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.
Joshua 11:6 Animal cruelty! God orders horses legs chopped!
6 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Be not afraid because of them: for to morrow about this time will I deliver them up all slain before Israel: thou shalt hough their horses, and burn their chariots with fire.

Judges 1 Killing 10,000!

2 And the LORD said, Judah shall go up: behold, I have delivered the land into his hand.
4 And Judah went up; and the LORD delivered the Canaanites and the Perizzites into their hand: and they slew of them in Bezek ten thousand men.

1SA 15 Yahway orders the killing of innocent infants (even those nursing) and innocent animals!

This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

Isaiah 13 Killing Children & wives raped!

15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.
17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.
18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

Ezekiel 9:4-6 Kill them all, Killing Children!

And the LORD said unto him, ...... Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house

Ezekiel 23 Yahway will commit murder & arson and kill children again! (God is going to slay the sons and daughters of those whores, Oholah and Oholibah and burn down their house as well as cut their noses and ears off, even take their clothes and & fine jewelry) God said that Oholibah wanted her lovers genitals to be the size of a donkeys, and their ejaculations to be like horses!

"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
25 I will direct my jealous anger against you, and they will deal with you in fury. They will cut off your noses and your ears, and those of you who are left will fall by the sword.
26 They will also strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewelry. (I'm sure they're going to worry about their clothes and "FINE" jewelry after their noses and ears are chopped off!)
46 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Bring a mob against them and give them over to terror and plunder. 47 The mob will stone them and cut them down with their swords; they will kill their sons and daughters and burn down their houses"

Hosea 13 Yahway will cause pregnant women to be ripped open! More infants killed as well!

Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me........
Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. (This verse doesn't give much support to the Christians who state that innocent life in the womb should not be killed and is a sin unto God)

Leviticus 20 Killing Children! Yahway says you must kill your child who curses!

1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, ...
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Kill the animal too.

15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

2 Chronicles 7 Animal cruelty by a wise man of God!

Solomon sacrificed 22,000 ox & 120,000 sheep in a week. (took a smart man to do that)

2 Samuel 12:11-12 Love thy neighbor! God is going to punish David by letting his neighbor to have sex with his wives in the daytime!

11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

Leviticus 1 Animal cruelty (Yahway said to kill a bull and burn it) it smells good to God!

1 And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
5 And he shall kill the bullock before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
6 And he shall flay the burnt offering, and cut it into his pieces.
7And the sons of Aaron the priest shall put fire upon the altar, and lay the wood in order upon the fire:
9 But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD. .
12 And he shall cut it into his pieces, with his head and his fat: and the priest shall lay them in order on the wood that is on the fire which is upon the altar:
13 But he shall wash the inwards and the legs with water: and the priest shall bring it all, and burn it upon the altar: it is a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.

Leviticus 1 Yahway orders to wring off the heads of turtledoves, or young pigeons, and to burn them, it smells good to God!

14 And if the burnt sacrifice for his offering to the LORD be of fowls, then he shall bring his offering of turtledoves, or of young pigeons.
15 And the priest shall bring it unto the altar, and wring off his head, and burn it on the altar; and the blood thereof shall be wrung out at the side of the altar:
17 And he shall cleave it with the wings thereof, but shall not divide it asunder: and the priest shall burn it upon the altar, upon the wood that is upon the fire: it is a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.

Ex 29 Animal cruelty! Yahway orders to kill rams, chop them up and burn them, it smells good to God!

Take one of the rams, and Aaron and his sons shall lay their hands on its head. 16 Slaughter it and take the blood and sprinkle it against the altar on all sides. 17 Cut the ram into pieces and wash the inner parts and the legs, putting them with the head and the other pieces. 18 Then burn the entire ram on the altar. It is a burnt offering to the LORD, a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire.
19 "Take the other ram, and Aaron and his sons shall lay their hands on its head. 20 Slaughter it, take some of its blood and put it on the lobes of the right ears of Aaron and his sons
And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them.
Leviticus 23 Animal cruelty, Yahway orders the killing and burning of lambs, it's a pleasing smell to God!
9 The LORD said to Moses, 10 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. 11 He is to wave the sheaf before the LORD so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. 12 On the day you wave the sheaf, you must sacrifice as a burnt offering to the LORD a lamb a year old without defect, 13 together with its grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah [a] of fine flour mixed with oil—an offering made to the LORD by fire, a pleasing aroma—and its drink offering of a quarter of a hin of wine. 14 You must not eat any bread, or roasted or new grain, until the very day you bring this offering to your God. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.

Leviticus 23 Animal cruelty! Yahway orders Feast of Weeks! It's a pleasing smell to God!

15 " 'From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks. 16 Count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then present an offering of new grain to the LORD. 17 From wherever you live, bring two loaves made of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour, baked with yeast, as a wave offering of firstfruits to the LORD. 18 Present with this bread seven male lambs, each a year old and without defect, one young bull and two rams. They will be a burnt offering to the LORD, together with their grain offerings and drink offerings—an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 19 Then sacrifice one male goat for a sin offering and two lambs, each a year old, for a fellowship offering. 20 The priest is to wave the two lambs before the LORD as a wave offering, together with the bread of the firstfruits.

EZ 4 Yahway orders barley cakes to be baked using sh#t!

And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them.
14 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth.
15 Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith.

Malachi 2:3 Yahway threatens to spread sh#t on the faces of the priests!

Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it.

Judges 11:30-39 Vow to give God a human sacrifice if he gains a victory over the Ammonites, (and the LORD gave them into his hands) kills his daughter!

And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD : "If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the LORD gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.
34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, "Oh! My daughter! You have made me miserable and wretched, because I have made a vow to the LORD that I cannot break."
36 "My father," she replied, "you have given your word to the LORD. Do to me just as you promised, now that the LORD has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. 37 But grant me this one request," she said. "Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry."
38 "You may go," he said. And he let her go for two months. She and the girls went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. 39 After the two months, she returned to her father and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.

Num 31 Human sacrifice of 32 women as Yahway's tribute!

31 And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.
32 And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,
33 And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,
34 And threescore and one thousand asses,
35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.
36 And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:
37 And the LORD'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.
38 And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and twelve.
39 And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and one.
40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was thirty and two persons

Num. 5 Yahway tells us what to do if you think your wife has cheated on you. Yahway says she must drink water with dust thrown in it from off the floor!

11 Then the LORD said to Moses, 12 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'If a man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 by sleeping with another man, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure- 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder offering to draw attention to guilt.
16 " 'The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, "If no other man has slept with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have defiled yourself by sleeping with a man other than your husband"- 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse of the oath-"may the LORD cause your people to curse and denounce you when he causes your thigh to waste away and your abdomen to swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells and your thigh wastes away. "
Remember this is if he suspected. How many innocent women had to drink dust out of suspicion of a controlling lunatic husband? This is called trial by ordeal.
This had to do with the immune system. A stronger immune system would prevent the swelling of the abdomen.

Num.18 Yahway tells us how to be a good witness to people who may happen to walk near the tent?

7 "Anyone else who comes near the sanctuary must be put to death."
(don't bother Yahway when they're killing that bull, you deserve death for that)
Is that the way your pastor should witness the kingdom to strangers who walk by the church?

Rev. 6 Stars are going to fall on the Earth in a future vision from God, before the 7th seal, (the trumpet & bowl judgments, 5th trumpet is 5 months)

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Most of the examples given here were direct quotes from Yahway, or a situation in which he working with or worked closely along side with. If I wished to use the any scripture as being the inspired word of God, hundreds of examples could have been used. The first thing the believer would say is, we don't understand everything. This is a way for them to block it out and ignore it. Some who try to analyze it will say it was divine revenge for sin. But this approach can only be taken so far. Example, how can he bring revenge upon innocent infants, and those in the mothers wombs? What evil could they have done? Why would Yahway create a barbaric dictator type test for a woman suspected of infidelity by making her drink dust off the floor mixed in with water? Did god really tells them to ring off a young birds head, or burn the guts of bull because he likes the swell of it? Here is where common sense will play a factor.


1. Either Yahway really said thing things or...
2. They thought they heard God's voice... or
3. The Israel political leaders attributed the words in the form of a tribal God to strike fear in the hearts of the people and as a means to get it's people to carry out these crimes to expand it's wealth political dominance throughout the region. People will do such for God if they feel it is a divine assignment. Here I go with option 3. There was too much thought put into these laws to believe they heard some voice. e.g.
Ex:21 20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
Man had a tendency to obey God rather than man. Generations later, Islam took the play book from the Hebrews and created their own God, Allah, and Allah ordered the killings of all those who were non Muslims.

Many people have separated the new testament from the old, but this is very hard to do, as the new testament confirms these were God's laws or it's words (Matt.19:18-19) (Matt.26:31) (Matt.22:37)Matt.4:4-10) Most of all (Matt. 22:29-31) (see also Matt.5:17-19, Matt.15:3-9,).

Confirmation of Moses' authority (Matt.23:2,23) Condoning the attendance of the Feast Of Tabernacles, (animal slaughter John 7:8)
These books are quoted in the epistles as well, 1 Peter 2:24 quotes Isaiah 53:5, 1 Peter 2:6 quotes Isaiah 28.16.
Peter acknowledges and gives advice on slavery, (2 Pet.1:18)
The new testament allies itself with those old testament teachings as being from God.
Matthew goes to extreme lengths to make Jesus fit some old testament prophecies.
I'll give only 2 examples, this said by Farrell Till,
"Unfamiliar with the structure of Hebrew poetry, Matthew simply misunderstood the parallelism in the original statement of Zechariah, so this resulted in a misquotation:
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy king cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, even upon a colt, the foal of an ass (Zech. 9:9, ASV).
Parallel emphasis was used extensively in Hebrew literature, and that was all that Zechariah was doing in this text. The ass was a colt, the foal of an ass, and this was all that Zechariah meant. Certainly, he did not mean for his readers to understand that this king (whoever he was) would ride on both an ass and her colt, as Matthew interpreted the statement to mean. (Incidentally, this mistake constitutes implied proof that whoever wrote the gospel of Matthew was non-Jewish and therefore unfamiliar with a Hebraic literary form that the real apostle Matthew would probably have known had he been the actual writer.) The misinterpretation resulted in an absurdity that is missing from Mark's and Luke's versions of the story, because they correctly understood the original statement.
There are far too many examples of parallel emphasis in the Old Testament to look at all of them, but a few will illustrate how ridiculous it is to attribute divine inspiration to a writer who was unable to recognize how it was used. Zechariah himself used it frequently. "And it came to pass in the fourth year of king Darius," he wrote, "that the word of Yahweh came unto Zechariah in the fourth day of the ninth month, even in Chislev" (7:1, ASV). Obviously, the ninth month was Chislev, and Chislev was the ninth month; the two were the same. Elsewhere, he wrote, "And they of Jerusalem shall yet again dwell in their own place, even in Jerusalem" (12:6, ASV). Their own place was Jerusalem, and Jerusalem was their own place. The two were the same.
This technique was by no means stylistically unique to Zechariah; it occurred throughout the Old Testament. Here are just a few of many examples that could be cited:
And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even the ten commandments (Deut. 4:13, ASV). ...(Till cont) "Had the Greek author of "Matthew" understood this, he would not have misinterpreted Zechariah's statement and put Jesus into the absurd posture of riding into Jerusalem on two donkeys."
(Farrwell Till cont)
"Possibly the best example of these is Matthew 1:23 where it was claimed that an angel's announcement to Joseph that his betrothed wife Mary would give birth to a child conceived by the Holy Spirit was done to fulfill a prophecy spoken by Isaiah: "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call his name Immanuel." In the original context, however, Isaiah made this statement as a sign to Ahaz, king of Judah, that an alliance recently formed against him by Rezin, the king of Syria, and Pekah, the king of Israel, would not succeed in defeating him. The Lord (Yahweh), as he was prone to do in those days, had sent Isaiah to reassure Ahaz that the alliance would not prevail. Isaiah begged Ahaz to ask for a sign that his prophecy was true. Finally, Isaiah said to him, "Hear now, O house of David! Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will you weary my God also? Therefore Yahweh Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive, and bear a Son, and shall call his name Immanuel" (Isaiah 7:13-14). Hence, the context clearly shows that this so-called prophecy was made not to foretell the birth of Jesus some 700 years later but the birth of a child to that time and that situation. How could a birth that would happen 700 years later, after Ahaz was dead and the battles had long since been fought, have been a sign to him that the Syrian-Israelite alliance would fail? The premise is too absurd even to contemplate.
To deal with contextual problems like the one in Isaiah's virgin-birth prophecy, bibliolaters have invented the double-application doctrine. "Yes, the prophecy in Isaiah did refer primarily to an immediate situation," they admit, "but it contained also, as did many other prophecies, a double-entendre that, in this case, makes it applicable to the birth of Jesus too." Contextual evidence, of course, necessitates their admission that prophecies such as this one were indeed intended for the times in which they were made, but if inerrantists are going to claim a "double-application" of Isaiah 7:14, they have a responsibility to do more than just claim. They must also prove. If Isaiah really had a double-meaning in mind, then who was the virgin of that generation who gave birth to a son? That is a legitimate question, because if Isaiah meant virgin in the strictest sense with reference to a woman who would give birth 700 years later, then he had to mean virgin in the strictest sense for the woman of his time who would bear a son. If not, why not? " Till, infidels.org
Immanuel was born in Isaiah 8.
See ( http://chelm.freeyellow.com/page13.html ) for the Jewish Refutation on all these Prophecies like Is 53, All similar to the above.
Many believers will point to the scripture, the circle of the Earth (Is.40:22) and God hung the Earth upon nothing (Job 26:7) to try to prove the world was round. First a circle does not mean something is not flat, a pancake is round. The Earth is a sphere. Why did it not use the term ball for an example? Would he have not used that example? The same book mentions a ball, (Is.22:18). When reading the rest of the related passages, you will see that the circle was above the Earth, and that the Earth was like a solid dome,(Gen 7:11, 8;2, Ps.104:3,13, 148:4, Jer:10:13) and the sky was stretched out like a tent (Is.40:22).
Job 26:7 was the Hebrew answer to the surrounding cosmology view of the pagans, who displayed the Earth riding on the back of a turtle, or on a man, Atlas. They believed the Earth and it's foundations had no fictional character holding it up as did the pagans.
They thought there was water above the Earth, where God or the angels opened the flood gates to make it rain. (Gen 7:11) some use the term "the windows" were opened)
See also "who builds his upper chambers in the heavens and founds his vault upon the earth; who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out upon the surface of the earth—the LORD is his name" Amos 9:6
God stated snow and hail was "kept" in a storehouse (Job 38:22)
We now know that clouds produce (not keep or store) water, and it becomes snow and hail and will remain as such due to the temperature.
The Earth is also said to have two lamps, (Gen.1:15) but the moon does not produce it's own light, it's light/lamp is lit from the sun.
Also it is said that light and darkness were separated, but you cannot separate the two, light is electromagnetic radiation that shines trough the darkness from a light source, like a flashlight or the sun. Turn off the light source and the darkness is still there.
You have many references to the four corners of the Earth, E.G. (Rev.7)(Isaiah 11:12) or ends "That it might take hold of the ends of the earth that the wicked might be shaken out of it?" (Job 38:13)
Bible cosmology is crude, such a stated the Sun stood still. Joshua 10:13 or it moves, Psalm 19:4-6, Eccl.1:5
Why do science books explain it better? Shouldn't the word of God be held to a higher standard?
There are too many contradictions to mention
GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood.
GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood.
NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood.

GE 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 32:30, EX 3:16, 6:2-3, 24:9-11, 33:11, NU 12:7-8, 14:14, JB 42:5, AM 7:7-8, 9:1 God is seen.
EX 33:20, JN 1:18, 1JN 4:12 God is not seen. No one can see God's face and live. No one has ever seen him.

GE 18:20-21 God decides to "go down" to see what is going on.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.

GE 22:1-12, DT 8:2 God tempts (tests) Abraham and Moses.
JG 2:22 God himself says that he does test (tempt).
1CO 10:13 Paul says that God controls the extent of our temptations.
JA 1:13 God tests (tempts) no one.

EX 3:1 Jethro was the father-in-law of Moses.
NU 10:29, JG 4:11 (KJV) Hobab was the father-in-law of Moses.

EX 9:3-6 God destroys all the cattle (including horses) belonging to the Egyptians.
EX 9:9-11 The people and the cattle are afflicted with boils.
EX 12:12, 29 All the first-born of the cattle of the Egyptians are destroyed.
EX 14:9 After having all their cattle destroyed, then afflicted with boils, and then their first-born cattle destroyed, the Egyptians pursue Moses on horseback.

RE 8:7 All of the grass on earth is burned up, and then ...
REV 9:4 An army of locusts, which is about to be turned loose on the earth, is instructed not to harm the grass.
Those are just a few are from Donald Morgan's collection. To be fair, Christians have responded to lend doubt on half of these contradictions, not disproving they are contradictions, but did spin them using lawyer type tactics. However, 40% were not covered well, such as the many contradictions in the gospels, and others, were obvious stretches of truth and logic, and about 10% of them, they still have no answer for.

Does Intelligent design support Yahweh?

Many Christians defend the bible with the intelligent design theory. But this lends support of a creator, and nothing to do with Yahweh.
One must ask themselves an import question, did the creator of the universe say such things.
To be fair, some Christians have pointed out the problems with Darwinism, and the example of the bacterial flagellum as Darwin stated, "“If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.”
Some evolutions defend Darwin in the same manner that Christians defend the racism in the bible. Darwin was a racist. "a married man would be a 'poor slave.. worse than a Negro." Also, Hugh Ross has created a great case based upon the fine tuning of the universe. However, both these examples lend no support to Yahway. Would such a creator of a perfectly tuned universe order the killings" two whores" and their sons and daughters and order their houses burned down, for he said one of them likes big donkey units heavy semen shots like that of a horse? (Ez.23)

Do they have any proof? Specific prophecies and dating of books proven to be flawed!
Some Christians will point to specific prophecies that were fulfilled in the old testament, but as Farrell Till, proved, that many of these books took years to complete, and made the completed dates much longer than they were when they started the book, and many things could have been edited in of the books. This made the dating of these books inaccurate Best example of this is as stated by Till.
Till stated.
"To inerrantists like Jackson, who are frantically looking for something with which to prop up their inerrancy doctrine, this may be a "remarkable" prophecy, but it loses its remarkableness when it is analyzed in the context of its timing. In listing his criteria of "valid" prophecy, Jackson said that it must also "involve proper timing (i.e., significantly preceding the fulfillment)." In this respect, Jackson's remarkable prophecy fails miserably. He may be right in saying that Sennacherib was assassinated twenty years after the context of events in which Isaiah's prophecy was written, but how can we know that the prophecy was actually uttered at the time attributed to it and not just written into that context after the fact of Sennacherib's assassination? The book of 2 Kings could not have been completed until approximately 150 years after Sennacherib's assassination. We know this from specific chronological details that are recorded in the book after Sennacherib's death. Hezekiah was king of Judah at the time, and he outlived Sennacherib by 15 years (20:6). Upon his death, Manasseh his son reigned in his stead (20:21) for 55 years (21:1). Amon reigned after Manasseh for two years (21:19), and then Josiah reigned for 31 years (22:1). After Josiah, Jehoahaz was king for three months (23:31), and then Jehoiakim reigned for 11 years (23:36). His son Jehoiachin reigned for three months, after which he was taken away captive by Nebuchadnezzar, who made Zedekiah king (24:10-17). Zedekiah reigned for 11 years (24:18), and then he was carried away to Babylon (25:6).
All of these reigns add up to 123+ years that transpired after Sennacherib's assassination. The book of 2 Kings ends by stating that Evil-Merodach, king of Babylon, "in the year that he began to reign, released Jehoiachin king of Judah from prison." This was in the 37th year of Jehoiachin's captivity (25:27). If we subtract the 11 years that Zedekiah reigned between the time of Jehoiachin's captivity until his release 37 years later, we have an additional 26 years to add to the 123 above. So the writer of 2 Kings obviously did not finish this book until about 150 years after Sennacherib's death. At the time, he was recording details about the Assyrian siege of Jerusalem, he knew the circumstances of Sennacherib's death, so how do we know that he did not conveniently write into the context of this story a "prophecy" that Sennacherib would "fall by the sword in his own land" upon his return home? What guarantees can Jackson or any other inerrantist give us that the "prophecy" did not occur in this way? Unless they can, by their own criterion of "proper timing," they do not have a "valid" prophecy, much less a remarkable one.
Jackson also cited as examples of "remarkable prophecies" the passages that called Josiah and king Cyrus of Persia by their names 300 and 150 years, respectively, before they were born (1 Kings 13:2; Isaiah 44:28; 45:1). But he has the same problem here that he had with the "prophecy" of Sennacherib's assassination. He must prove his criterion of "proper timing." He must prove that these statements were unquestionably made before the times of those kings whose reigns were allegedly predicted in terms so specific that even their names were used. And how can he do that? How can anyone do it? The facts previously cited about the so-called prophecy of Sennacherib's assassination clearly show that the writer of 2 Kings was not above writing his historical narrative to make it appear that "remarkable" prophecies had occurred. Did this person also write 1 Kings? If so, how do we know that he (she) didn't do the same thing in the case of the Josiah prophecy?
Only the most brazen-faced inerrantists will deny that anachronisms occur throughout the Bible. In 2 Samuel 1:18, it was said that a song about the exploits of David was written in the book of Jashar. If this was true, then obviously the book of Jasher could not have been written until the time of David. Yet we read in Joshua 10:13 that the famous feat that Joshua accomplished when he made the sun and moon stand still was also recorded in the book of Jashar. Bible fundamentalists want us to believe that the book of Joshua was written if not by Joshua himself at least by someone contemporary to his time. The events in Joshua, however, occurred some 400 years before David, so how could a contemporary of Joshua have known that this famous stunt was recorded in a book that would not be written till at least 400 years later?" Till infidels.org

As Harold S. Martin stated,
"The book of Isaiah was written by two or three different writers, each widely separated in time. "
Wikipedia "Almost all scholars who believe that there are multiple authors recognize some sort of division at the end of chapter 39 and that subsequent portions were written by one or more additional authors, referred to collectively as Deutero-Isaiah. Supporters of the three author proposal see a further division at the end of chapter 55. For most of the twentieth century the three-author position was the most widely held"
H. H. Rowley stated
"The Book of Daniel is not a work of the sixth century B. C. The case against the traditional date to which the composition of the book has been assigned rests on a variety of considerations, but the single one we have examined in the first part of our study would alone be sufficient to establish it. For a sixth-century person, who not only lived through the events of the period, but took a leading part in them, could not have made so gross an error as our author made in introducing Darius the Mede between Belshazzar and Cyrus."
As Farrell Till stated,
"The Reign of the "Contemptible" Antiochus Epiphanes: This verse-by-verse explication of Daniel's vision in chapter 11 shows that the writer, if indeed a 6th-century B. C. Babylonian official, had "prophesied" events from the 4th to the 2nd century B. C. with uncanny accuracy, even though he seemed not to know the history of his own era. This is why modern biblical critics think it is more likely that in chapter 11, the writer, rather than looking forward into time, was actually looking back on events that had happened far more recently than the Babylonian captivity, and so that is why he performed much better in this chapter than in those that reported the activities of "Daniel" in 6th-century Babylon. The uncanny accuracy of Daniel's 2nd-century B. C. prophecies, however, was about to change. "
Daniel was accurate until ( Dan.11:44-45). As Farrell Till stated, "None of this happened, and the probable explanation for the sudden prophecy failures after a long string of uncanny successes is that the writer, who lived during the time of Antiochus Epiphanes, was looking back on past events until he reached the time when he was writing the book. In order to continue his "prophecies," he actually had to predict, and his predictions proved incorrect. On the basis of past conflicts between the Seleucids and Ptolemaic rulers that the writer was familiar with, he chose to predict that Antiochus, riding high on a string of successes, would invade Egypt again, conquer it, and revel in its riches. It was an intelligent guess, but it didn't happen.
The "prophecy" of the end of Antiochus was rather open-ended. It merely said that Antiochus would "pitch his palatial tents between the sea and the beautiful holy mountain" (between the Mediterranean Sea and Zion in Jerusalem) and "would come to an end with no one to help him." Actually, Antiochus Epiphanes died in Persia (far removed from "palatial tents between the sea and the beautiful holy mountain) of an illness that 1 Maccabees 6:1-6 attributed to mental distress over news he had received that his armies in Judah had been put to flight." Till
How was Daniel so accurate up until this point? Because during this war, they had forged a scroll said to be of old that foretold their victory. This enabled the army to go in without fear and destroy the opposing enemy knowing it was already foretold.

All or nothing!
This is an example how the forged prophecies as well as attributing atrocities is said to be from God. If one can see that God never said such words as hanging up human heads (Num 25), killing the children of whores that God said like a donkey size penis, and ejaculations to be like a horse and burns their houses down after he kills them (Ez 23), and making people eat their own children (Lev 26) and were lies from political Israel, it is easy to see how they lied in writing prophecies. Examples in this section shows they did not cross their i's or cross their t's very well in covering this up, such as in the example of Jasher (above).
It is here that shows it is all or nothing. If you believe that such are lies are from the Israeli leaders put these words as God's words, than you realize that they lie. So why would it be a stretch to say they lied in forging prophecies? Actually there is good proof that Daniel is forged prophecy as we have seen.
So it is either they lie or they don't. If one believes they lie as most people other than bible in-errants, do not believe that God ordered infants and those nursing on their mother to be killed (1 Sa 15), than is it accepted that God never said such, which would make the writers of the old testament liars! Having bad credibility and believing they lied is hard to believe any alleged prophecies or it's dates or completed dates, or that the Patriarchs altered or edited additional material to the texts. They are either liars or they are not.
When you see that Daniel prophecies failed from a certain point onward, makes it easy to see that the writer have forged prophecies such as the Josiah Prophecy, Farrell Till stated,
"If there is proof that Isaiah actually referred to Cyrus of Persia by name 150 years before he was born, then let him show us the proof. But if the proof doesn't exist, he should be honest enough to admit that Occam's razor favors those who say that the references to Cyrus were redacted into the text of Isaiah after the reign of Cyrus had become a fact.
The best biblical scholarship has long recognized that the book of Isaiah was not written in its entirety by the prophet who lived 700 years before Christ. That the book was added to and edited in later years is so critically obvious that scholars openly refer to the divisions in the book as First and Second Isaiah. On this point, Eerdmans Bible Dictionary, not exactly a hotbed of liberalism, said this:
From a literary standpoint, the book can be divided into two major sections, Isa. 1-39 and 40- 66, on the basis of content and, concomitantly, theological concepts. Indeed, the majority of critical scholars accept the view suggested as early as Abraham ibn Ezra (twelfth century A.D.) that only the first portion can be ascribed to the eighth-century B.C. prophet Isaiah, a contemporary of Amos, Hosea, and Micah. The second section is attributed to an unknown prophet, commonly designated Second or Deutero-Isaiah, living among the Jews in Babylon toward the end of the Exile (ca. 550-538). Many scholars further identify chs. 56-66 as the work of Third or Trito-Isaiah, addressed to the restoration community perhaps in the period immediately preceding Ezra and Nehemiah. More extreme critics posit even more "Isaiahs" (1987, p. 531).
Bible fundamentalists think that they can dismiss all critical opinions as these as "liberal" nonsense, but calling someone a liberal for applying critical analysis to the Bible text doesn't resolve the problem. Which is more likely, that a prophet referred to a king by name 150 before the king had even been born or that a redactor living after the time of that king added materials to a previously written work?" Till infidels.org
Again as Harold S. Martin stated,
"The book of Isaiah was written by two or three different writers, each widely separated in time. "
Wikipedia "Almost all scholars who believe that there are multiple authors recognize some sort of division at the end of chapter 39 and that subsequent portions were written by one or more additional authors, referred to collectively as Deutero-Isaiah. Supporters of the three author proposal see a further division at the end of chapter 55. For most of the twentieth century the three-author position was the most widely held"

Failed prophecies

EZEKIEL had many failed prophecies,
To name two I'll quote Farrell Till,
1 "Egypt was to experience forty years of utter desolation:
Therefore, thus says Yahweh God: "Surely I will bring a sword upon you and cut off from you man and beast. And the land of Egypt shall become desolate and waste; then they will know that I am Yahweh, because he said, `The River is mine, and I have made it.' Indeed, therefore, I am against you and against your rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from Migdol to Syene, as far as the border of Ethiopia. Neither foot of man shall pass through it nor foot of beast pass through it, and it shall be uninhabited forty years. I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate; and among the cities that are laid waste, her cities shall be desolate forty years; and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them through the countries" (29:8-14).
Talk about extravagant rhetoric, we certainly have it in this passage. No such desolation has ever happened to Egypt; there never has been a time in recorded history when Egypt was not inhabited by man or beast for forty years, when its cities were laid waste and desolate, when its people were all dispersed to foreign lands, etc. Bible defenders, of course, resort quickly to figurative and future applications, but their strategy just won't work. Future fulfillments are excluded by patently clear references that Ezekiel made to contemporary characters who were to figure in the fulfillment: "Son of man, set your face against Pharaoh king of Egypt, and prophesy against him" (29:2). Although Egypt still survives as a nation, its rule by pharaohs ended long ago. Furthermore, Ezekiel identified Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, as the instrument Yahweh would use to bring about Egypt's desolation: "Therefore thus says Yahweh God: `Surely I will give the land of Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; he shall take away her wealth, carry off her spoil, and remove her pillage, and that will be the wages for his army'" (29:19). Clearly, then, Ezekiel had in mind a contemporary fulfillment of this prediction.
2 Ezekiel just as rashly predicted the utter destruction of Tyre, a prediction whose failure has become even more embarrassing to bibliolaters than his doom's-day prophecy against Egypt:
Therefore thus says Yahweh God: "Behold, I am against you, O Tyre, and will cause many nations to come up against you, as the sea causes its waves to come up. And they shall destroy the walls of Tyre and break down her towers; I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock. It shall be a place for spreading nets in the midst of the sea, for I have spoken," says Yahweh God; "it shall become plunder for the nations. Also her daughter villages which are in the fields shall be slain by the sword. Then they shall know that I am Yahweh."
For thus says Yahweh God: "Behold, I will bring against Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses, with chariots, and with horsemen, and an army with many people. He will slay with the sword your daughter villages in the fields; he will heap up a siege mound against you, build a wall against you, and raise a defense against you. He will direct his battering rams against your walls, and with his axes he will break down your towers. Because of the abundance of his horses, their dust will cover you; your walls will shake at the noise of the horsemen, the wagons, and the chariots, when he enters your gates, as men enter a city that has been breached. With the hooves of his horses he will trample all your streets; he will slay your people by the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground. They will plunder your riches and pillage your merchandise; they will break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses; they will lay your stones, your timber, and your soil in the midst of the water. I will put an end to the sound of your songs, and the sound of your harps shall be heard no more. I will make you like the top of a rock; you shall be a place for spreading nets, you shall never be rebuilt, for I Yahweh have spoken," says Yahweh God (26:3-14).
Ezekiel's tirade against Tyre continued through three chapters. His prediction was that the city's destruction would be complete and permanent: "The merchants among the peoples will hiss at you; you will become a horror, and be no more forever" (27:36). So sure was he of Tyre's eternal destruction that he repeated it: "All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you: you have become a horror, and shall be no more forever" (28:19).
That this prophecy was never fulfilled can be verified with no more difficulty than a trip to the public library. Ezekiel prophesied that Nebuchadnezzar would destroy Tyre and that "you (Tyre) shall never be rebuilt" (26:14) and "shall be no more, though you are sought for, you will never be found again" (26:21). History, however, records the fact that Nebuchadnezzar not only didn't destroy Tyre, he didn't even capture it. The New Encyclopedia Britannica (Micropedia, Vol. 10, 1978) said this in reviewing the long history of Tyre: ....Nebuchadnezzar did capture the mainland suburb of Tyre, but he never succeeded in taking the island part, which was the seat of Tyrian grandeur. That being so, it could hardly be said that Nebuchadnezzar wreaked the total havoc on Tyre that Ezekiel vituperatively predicted in the passages cited. Even Ezekiel himself admitted the failure of this prophecy.
Furthermore, Ezekiel's prophecy against Egypt frankly admitted Nebuchadnezzar's failure to destroy Tyre. It plainly said that Nebuchadnezzar and his army "had no wages" for their "labor" against Tyre. As a result, Yahweh, according to this prophecy, had decided to award Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar as payment for his services: "Therefore thus says the Sovereign Yahweh: Behold, I will give the land of Egypt to Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon; and he shall carry off her multitude, and take her plunder, and take her prey: and that will be the wages for his army" (29:19). Strangely enough, Ezekiel was admitting in this statement that his prophecy against Tyre had failed, for if Nebuchadnezzar had taken the island part of the city, he surely would have carried off its multitude, taken its plunder, and taken its prey, and these would have been his "wages." If one wonders why a man claiming divinely endowed prophetic powers would make a prediction and then three chapters later admit that his prediction had failed, I can only say what I said before: stranger things than this can be found in the Bible.
Some bibliolaters have tried to mitigate the failure of Ezekiel's Tyre prophecy by extending its scope beyond Nebuchadnezzar to Alexander the Great, who did succeed in capturing the island part of Tyre in 332 B.C. But this ploy won't work. Ezekiel clearly identified Nebuchadnezzar as the avenging instrument that Yahweh would use to bring about a total, everlasting destruction of Tyre." Till infidels.org

God feels the need to mention this disease, (Lev.14) but while he was on the topic, why did he not give the formula to the priests to create the antibiotics we would give to the leper today? Did not Yahway know the future? He seen the day of the Lord when the stars fall to the Earth and when the pregnant women get ripped open, (Is.13) why did he not see the formula we have today? Instead Christians are OK with knowing that he told them to drain blood from birds in a basin only if the person got over the leprosy. They are OK with the fact, that despite he saw the future and mentioned sicknesses that are today treated with advanced medicine, that God only gave formulas to draw blood from animals, chop them up and burn them, (Lev.1) and how to create a formula to bake barley cakes with sh#t, (Ez 4).

More Racism
To believe all scripture is inspired is to condone racism, "You shall not eat anything which dies of itself. You may give it to the alien who is in your town, so that he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner, for you are a holy people to the LORD your God. You shall not boil a young goat in its mother's milk" Dt. 14:21 calling non Israelites "dogs" (Matt 15:26)
But to accept many of the atrocities as coming from God, is to swallow handfuls of camels, not isolated nats.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-28-2008 4:45 PM DannyPartridge has responded

Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008

Message 83 of 88 (492146)
12-28-2008 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by DannyPartridge
12-28-2008 4:22 PM

Re: It's hard to believe in some of it.

Welcome to EvC.

Just a helpful hint. In a science forum such as EvC, excessive verbosity is a vice rather than a virtue. Especially if it is a 10,000+ word post. No one in their right mind is going to be able to answer all the assertions you post here. Please help us out and keep posts to a digestable length. Also seperating seperate thoughts with spaces in between paragraphs and highlighting/offsetting quoted material (see dBCodes help to the left) also helps in comprehending your ideas. Keeping on topic is also highly encouraged (I am guilty of sometimes violating this rule as well).

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by DannyPartridge, posted 12-28-2008 4:22 PM DannyPartridge has responded

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 Message 84 by DannyPartridge, posted 12-28-2008 4:48 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

Junior Member (Idle past 3908 days)
Posts: 5
From: San Pueblo, Ca
Joined: 12-28-2008

Message 84 of 88 (492147)
12-28-2008 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by DevilsAdvocate
12-28-2008 4:45 PM

Re: It's hard to believe in some of it.
Ok I wont do that again, I just had all that on word pad, but I really needed to express why I feel it's hard to believe in isolated scriptures. But I hope some reply to what they feel they could.

Edited by DannyPartridge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-28-2008 4:45 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

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 Message 85 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-28-2008 4:54 PM DannyPartridge has not yet responded

Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008

Message 85 of 88 (492148)
12-28-2008 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by DannyPartridge
12-28-2008 4:48 PM

Re: It's hard to believe in some of it.
I am not admin. I am just a forum member trying to help out.

It is really easy to lose track of where the discussion is at and where it is going but usually short, direct "question & answer" posts works better on these types of forums rather than long rambling dissertations especially on a forum with a lot of participants as this one.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

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 Message 84 by DannyPartridge, posted 12-28-2008 4:48 PM DannyPartridge has not yet responded

Junior Member (Idle past 3908 days)
Posts: 5
From: San Pueblo, Ca
Joined: 12-28-2008

Message 86 of 88 (492417)
12-31-2008 6:14 AM

I could have summed up all of that with this.
Yahway commited or ordered and shall commit...

Multiple counts of murder
Multiple counts of genocide
Multiple counts of animal cruelty
Infanticide (killing infants)
Crimes against humanity (ripping open pregnant women)
Multiple counts of arson
Mental and physical wife abuse (Num 5)
Multiple counts of theft
Multiple counts of racism
Multiple counts of slavery

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Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Larni, posted 12-31-2008 7:30 AM DannyPartridge has not yet responded

Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005

Message 87 of 88 (492418)
12-31-2008 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by DannyPartridge
12-31-2008 6:14 AM

Yeah, the xian god is a real bastard.

But it won't stop xians crawling out of the woodwork to twist logic and reality to fit with a 'Yahway actually is nice' position.

Welcome to EvC.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by DannyPartridge, posted 12-31-2008 6:14 AM DannyPartridge has not yet responded

Junior Member (Idle past 3908 days)
Posts: 5
From: San Pueblo, Ca
Joined: 12-28-2008

Message 88 of 88 (492457)
12-31-2008 2:42 PM

To be fair, it was the OT god, not the new. Jesus did say some good things, there were a few grey areas, but nothing compared to the tribal war god atrocities. The problem I have with the NT is this paragraph I stated above.

"Many people have separated the new testament from the old, but this is very hard to do, as the new testament confirms these were God's laws or it's words (Matt.19:18-19) (Matt.26:31) (Matt.22:37)Matt.4:4-10) Most of all (Matt. 22:29-31) (see also Matt.5:17-19, Matt.15:3-9,).
Confirmation of Moses' authority (Matt.23:2,23) Condoning the attendance of the Feast Of Tabernacles, (animal slaughter John 7:8)
These books are quoted in the epistles as well, 1 Peter 2:24 quotes Isaiah 53:5, 1 Peter 2:6 quotes Isaiah 28.16.
Peter acknowledges and gives advice on slavery, (2 Pet.1:18)
The new testament allies itself with those old testament teachings as being from God."

I'll be back later, we have to work on that new song that Keith wrote.

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