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Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Viagra & Evolution | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Huntard Member (Idle past 2324 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
subbie writes:
I don't want them to reproduce, because the chance their offspring will also be disabled is too large. Yes, they can still be perfectly happy with this, but I don't want ANY human to go through that, I just don't think it is a good life to lead. Perhaps I am now speaking from my own perspective, that of a perfectly healthy human, but I certainly wouldn't want to live like that. Although the argument that they lessen the overall fitness would be on a second place for me. Let's have a bit of fun, and see if we can give the cdesign proponentists a little ammunition. (Seems to be the least we can do since they give themselves so little to work with.) I'm assuming the reason that you don't want them to reproduce is because they reduce the overall fitness of the species and are, on the whole, a drain on resources. What steps, if any, would you be willing to accept for society to discourage them reproducing? I have my own conclusion to this question, fairly firmly held, that I'll share. But I'm curious to hear what you (or anyone else) has to say on the matter. About the steps I'm a bit in a bind, on one hand, I care very much for personal freedom, on the other, the reasons listed above are a strong pull for me to do something about it. I'm not entirely sure I would advocate sterilization of the disabled, there is still some doubt in me about that. Edited by Huntard, : Forgot the steps part. I hunt for the truth
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
What steps, if any, would you be willing to accept for society to discourage them reproducing? But a phenotype is not defined by one gene, no matter how much that one gene may affect the development. The question is whether the whole phenotype must be selected against, or whether there is just one gene or one gene cluster. Taking Down Syndrome as an example:
Down Syndrome FAQsquote: All one needs do is restore the normal chromosome in the offspring to allow "normal" reproduction.
Let's have a bit of fun, and see if we can give the cdesign proponentists a little ammunition. It should also prove instructive for our creationist friends to explain how - if all mutations are loss of information - what is lost when this chromosome is duplicated Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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fallacycop Member (Idle past 5549 days) Posts: 692 From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil Joined: |
First of all, some females with down syndrome CAN reproduce, given that the male counterpart is normal. I can't say I've heard of a case where a down syndrome male has been able to reproduce. Anyway, the offsprings have a very high chance of having down syndrome as well.
First of all, I didn't say that they are sterile. I said they don't reproduce, which is close enought to truth for the discussion here.
Many severe disabilities will also prevent reproduction.
While this is true, the same can be said about severe disabilities that don't prevent reproduction. It's an inconvienience that primates have apparently been able to overcome.
You didn't answer the question either.
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Hmm again...
I'm still not entirely convinced, but I do see where you're coming from.
Rather than genetic, they could be developmental changes due to hormones and stress. People talk about stress levels in teens being high, and this is when sexuality matures. I do agree that whatever is happening, it's happening at a developmental level, either in adults, pubescent teens or in the womb (or maybe all three). Your points about stress, dominance behaviours and over-crowding are well made, but I still don't see that there is any huge difference in those issues between today and say, the nineteenth century and especially the early twentieth. The pictures illustrate your point very well, but imagine a Victorian factory or slum, a crowded market place or a mine. All very crowded and extremely stressful. To my mind, the most tempting hypothesis is pollution, with the drop in fertility starting at about the same time as a boom in novel chemicals and industrial processes. Molybdenum for example, has been implicated in infertility (study here). Another study plays down the pollutant connection, showing only a small effect.
quote: Source It also mentions that fertility rates have actually been going up recently.
What would be interesting would be to see if there is a correlation between incidence and population density. It certainly would. A study comparing either anxiety or infertility against urban/rural location would be interesting.I couldn't find one for infertility. It does occur to me though, that areas with higher population density are going to be more polluted, possibly confusing the issue. I found this study that suggests a link between urban living and worse mental health. That would seem to support the anxiety-based explanation. It would also be interesting to see if there were a correlation between levels of anxiety and infertility over the past few decades. So to sum up, I'm not really convinced either way. Not enough data yet to make a decision, so I'm going to maintain an open mind on this one. It's probably a combination of factors anyway. Mutate and Survive "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
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fallacycop Member (Idle past 5549 days) Posts: 692 From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil Joined: |
That said (and you have my permission to call me heartless), I don't want them to reproduce.
I'm not going to call you Heartless, for I see it in the exact same way. Eugenics on the rise at EvC
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pesto Member (Idle past 5616 days) Posts: 63 From: Chicago, IL Joined: |
Peg writes: except that its seen in men as young as their early 20's1 australian site says that almost 10% of sufferers are in their 20's One question I haven't seen raised yet. Do we know if this is any higher than the historical average?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
i read recently "Research in the US has show that there is a statistical link between religious belief and procreation. In effect, the more devout a person is, the more children he or she will have."
so think about this... those that do not believe in evolution will have the biggest impact on the evolution of the human race and those who do believe in evolution will gradually become extinct. how ironic would this be if it turned out to be true LOL
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
i dont know the answer to that question
but it would be interesting to find out.
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lyx2no Member (Idle past 4745 days) Posts: 1277 From: A vast, undifferentiated plane. Joined: |
Not that I suggest that creationists are qualitative substitutes for the idiots in said movie or that anyone should see this movie for any reason other then pop reference purposes, but you're point has value.
Don't do that Dave.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 865 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
Peg writes: i read recently "Research in the US has show that there is a statistical link between religious belief and procreation. In effect, the more devout a person is, the more children he or she will have." so think about this... those that do not believe in evolution will have the biggest impact on the evolution of the human race and those who do believe in evolution will gradually become extinct. how ironic would this be if it turned out to be true LOL According to this site you may want to invest in a prayer rug and a Quran as Islam is the religion of the head of household that has the most children per couple of all in the US. {ABE}Now what correlation there may be between number of children per couple based upon the religion of the head of household and acceptance of the theory of evolution in that family has yet to be shown or even to this point discussed. Edited by anglagard, : No reason given. Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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