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Author Topic:   What i can't understand about evolution....
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 61 of 493 (490348)
12-03-2008 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by wardog25
12-03-2008 1:42 PM


Re: Evidence for speciation
sharks belong to the fish family.
Wrong. There is no fish family Fish can be a superclass: pisces containing Hagfish, Lampreys, Cartiligeous fishes (sharks & ray) & bony Fish (Teleosts, Lungfish,Lobefins & ganoids) or a class (any of the above groups in the superclass. Each contains a number of orders which contain a number of families.
Edited by bluescat48, : missing letter

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by wardog25, posted 12-03-2008 1:42 PM wardog25 has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 119 of 493 (492469)
12-31-2008 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Percy
12-31-2008 3:42 PM


Re: Macro-evolution sans fossils!
For sexual species, changes from one generation to the next are mainly due to allele remixing (alleles are gene variants, like for blue eyes versus brown eyes), while species change over longer time periods is caused by mutations.
It would be logical to assume that originally humans were either all blue-eyed or brown-eyed in which the alternate had to be a mutation.
I doubt that the early humans had one blue eye & one brown eye.
Edited by bluescat48, : missing letter

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Percy, posted 12-31-2008 3:42 PM Percy has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 218 of 493 (492979)
01-04-2009 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by seekingfirstthekingdom
01-04-2009 9:40 PM


However evolutionary science by its very definition totally removes any chance of an intelligent designer.Unlike you guys im actually quite relaxed about the possibilty that yall could be right and that darwin and dawkins will be names lauded to time indefinate.However i dont honestly think you guys like the idea that people like me could be right.Occams razor you say.Yeah you bet.
If you or any one could show that there was an intelligent designer or a creator with positive evidence then I would be happy to jump on such a "band-wagon," but as of now no one has offered any.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by seekingfirstthekingdom, posted 01-04-2009 9:40 PM seekingfirstthekingdom has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 237 of 493 (493049)
01-05-2009 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Peg
01-05-2009 2:00 AM


firstly, you have called it a theory 7 times... i thought it was a 'fact'... which is it? Fact or Theory?
To put it bluntly, both. The fact is that evolution occurs, the theory is how it occurs. The fact doesn't change but the theory can be falsified if a better theory is found. The is that same for Gravity, plate tectonics, oxydation-reduction, periodic law, Copernican Solar system etc. All are both facts & theories.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Peg, posted 01-05-2009 2:00 AM Peg has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 248 of 493 (493094)
01-05-2009 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Peg
01-05-2009 10:51 PM


Re: The theory of evolution contains no magic. That's the "other side's" theory.
for someone like me, who has not studied evolution
That is where your problem is. Study evolution before you make wild comments about it.
as for cats & hyenas the families Felidae (cats), Hyaenidae (hyenas) together with the canidae (dogs), mustelidae (weasels), procyonidae (raccoons), Ursidae (bears) and several other families make up order Carnivora. All are related genetically. Their DNA is closely related, more so than to the DNA of other mammals.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Peg, posted 01-05-2009 10:51 PM Peg has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 265 of 493 (493208)
01-07-2009 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Peg
01-07-2009 6:05 AM


Re: The theory of evolution contains no magic. That's the "other side's" theory.
When the amphibian supposedly evolved into a reptile, the wastes eliminated were noted to have changed from urea to uric acid. But when the reptile became a mammal there was a reversal. Mammals went back to the amphibian way, eliminating wastes as urea. In effect, evolution went backward”something that theoretically it is not supposed to do. How do they explain that???
Why backward? There is no direction in evolution. Changes that make a species more likely to survive will be passed on to future generations. The change from urea to uric acid allowed reptiles & later birds to lay eggs on land. Uric acid doesn't disolve in water and could be "dumped" at the side of the egg. Mammals, which are viviparous don't need the uric acid dodge and eventually reverted back to urea. It is not backward.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Peg, posted 01-07-2009 6:05 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Peg, posted 01-08-2009 6:19 AM bluescat48 has replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 289 of 493 (493313)
01-08-2009 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Peg
01-08-2009 6:19 AM


Re: The theory of evolution contains no magic. That's the "other side's" theory.
if as you say, animals progressed up the evolutionary scale, and became more capable of surviving, yes?
If thats the case, why is the “inferior” ape family still in existence, but not a single one of the presumed intermediate forms, which were supposed to be more advanced in evolution?
Today we see chimpanzees, gorillas and orangutans, but no “ape-men.” How is it that the more recent and supposedly more advanced “links” between apelike creatures and modern man should have become extinct, but not the lower apes?
1) Why should the other apes be called inferior?
2) There are other factors besides natural selection which cause evolutionary changes. The fact that changes in the environment can cause extinctions. Why is it that the non-bird dinoaurs, pleisosaurs & icthiosaurs all became extinct but the birds persisted? Why did lizards, snakes, crocodilians, turtles remain?
3) The point that humans & chimps are not in the direct line but come from a common ancestor. The intermediate hominids are between the common ancestor and modern humans, not between chimps & humans.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Peg, posted 01-08-2009 6:19 AM Peg has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 307 of 493 (493428)
01-08-2009 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by Peg
01-08-2009 6:58 PM


Re: how do we measure 'inferiority'?
if the ape men were supposed to have evolved into a more advanced form of previous ape, then how is it that those lower apes, survived and the more advanced apes did not?
Ape men, as you call them, did not evolve into your so called lower apes. There are 5 different ape lines. I'll call the first (A). A is the common ancestor to The Gibbons & (B). B is the common ancestor to The Orangutans & (C). C is the common ancestor to The Gorillas & (D). D is the common ancestor to the Chimps & Humans. The "ape men" are in the human line. The 5 ape lines that exist today are the gibbons (4 genera), orangutans (1 genus), gorillas (1 genus), chimps (1 genus)& humans (1 genus).

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Peg, posted 01-08-2009 6:58 PM Peg has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 334 of 493 (493669)
01-10-2009 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 333 by Peg
01-10-2009 6:41 AM


Re: how do we measure 'inferiority'?
the earlier apes (gorillas/monkeys etc) are still here today, but the evolved species (hominoids/neanderthal ect) have become extinct
firstly, if the earlier ape types are still here, then as was said, they are perfectly adapted to their environment hence they are not extinct
but if they were perfectly adapted to their environment, why did some evolve into homosapient types, and others stay the same?
First Monkeys are not apes. 2nd Gorillas aren't earlier apes, they are modern apes. Humans, chimps, gorillas & gibbons are all "modern apes" to use your word. The "earlier" apes are all extinct, that being the common ancestors and any intermediate species between the common ancestors & the current species.
as I said in Message 307:
There are 5 different ape lines. I'll call the first (A). A is the common ancestor to The Gibbons & (B). B is the common ancestor to The Orangutans & (C). C is the common ancestor to The Gorillas & (D). D is the common ancestor to the Chimps & Humans. The "ape men" are in the human line. The 5 ape lines that exist today are the gibbons (4 genera), orangutans (1 genus), gorillas (1 genus), chimps (1 genus)& humans (1 genus).
Edited by bluescat48, : accidental

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by Peg, posted 01-10-2009 6:41 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 371 of 493 (493861)
01-11-2009 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by Peg
01-11-2009 4:45 AM


Re: how do we measure 'inferiority'?
Not ancestor but decendant. Your 10th great grandparent would be a common ancestor of you and, an example, your 20th cousin.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Peg, posted 01-11-2009 4:45 AM Peg has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 395 of 493 (494274)
01-15-2009 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 390 by Peg
01-15-2009 6:41 AM


Re: how do we measure 'inferiority'?
hence why the crocodile is a remarkable example because how is it that in a world where all things evolve, this one species has not?
Which species of crocodile are you talking about? The crocodiles of 200 million years ago are not the same species as today's crocodiles. The same that todays coelocanths, cockroches & ginkos are different than earlier species.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by Peg, posted 01-15-2009 6:41 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 400 by Percy, posted 01-15-2009 8:32 AM bluescat48 has replied
 Message 402 by Peg, posted 01-15-2009 8:38 AM bluescat48 has replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 397 of 493 (494277)
01-15-2009 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 393 by Peg
01-15-2009 7:58 AM


Re: The theory of evolution contains no magic. That's the "other side's" theory.
have they produced life from non living matter?
This has nothing to do with evolution, as has been stated a number of times.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by Peg, posted 01-15-2009 7:58 AM Peg has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 405 of 493 (494300)
01-15-2009 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 402 by Peg
01-15-2009 8:38 AM


Re: how do we measure 'inferiority'?
its not logical that evolution would have been active with all other species but not on this one....would it do that?????
There is no % change in a species. Evolution is the descent with modification. If very little modification is necessary for the species to survive then little modification occurs. If more modification is necessary, then the species with evolve more. That is what is actually meant by "Survival of the fittest."
Edited by bluescat48, : missing letters

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by Peg, posted 01-15-2009 8:38 AM Peg has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 406 of 493 (494301)
01-15-2009 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 400 by Percy
01-15-2009 8:32 AM


Re: how do we measure 'inferiority'?
In the same post Peg also claimed you said that evolution is random. You might want to address that point as well.
Yes when I find which post I apparently said that.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by Percy, posted 01-15-2009 8:32 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 428 of 493 (494464)
01-16-2009 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 389 by Peg
01-15-2009 6:27 AM


Pasteur’s experiments of nearly a hundred years ago demolished that theory. If it is argued that abiogenesis does not occur now but did occur in bygone ages, that is merely speculation. We should still see spontaneous generation of life from non living matter but it just doesnt happen.
It did no such thing. It mearly proved that such things as maggots don't spontaneously form from rotting meat, which was the accepted idea at the time. It doe not have anything to do with abiogenesis.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by Peg, posted 01-15-2009 6:27 AM Peg has not replied

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