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Author | Topic: Giant People in the bible? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
deerbreh Member (Idle past 2913 days) Posts: 882 Joined: |
My guess is that anyone over 6 ft was likely considered a giant in the time period covered in the OT. Relatively poor diets, particularly for Hebrew slaves coming out of Egypt and wandering around in the wilderness would not promote maximum growth. Also the fact that Goliath, who was about 7 feet tall if one can believe the text, was considered remarkable, suggests that his height was considerably above average even for the Philistines. All it would take for the spies to carry back tales of "giants" would be to see several above average height men, imo. These were fearful people and the tendency to exaggerate must have been strong indeed. This plus the fact that the spies were likely crouching/crawling in the underbrush probably produced the observation of "giants".
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Peg Member (Idle past 4950 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
actually i thought that neanderthals were supposed to be much largeer then us
hence why i asked. according to a book on archeology i have, their brains were much bigger then ours, hence their head size must have been bigger and so i assume they would bodies that were in proportion to the size of their heads
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2126 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
according to a book on archeology i have, their brains were much bigger then ours, hence their head size must have been bigger and so i assume they would bodies that were in proportion to the size of their heads Cranial capacity was slightly larger than ours, but not enough to make any difference. The range of variation in modern humans is huge. The bodies seem to have been emphasizing strength over speed. Many muscle attachments are found at a greater distance from the pivot point than in modern humans giving increased power but decreased speed. It is possible that these folks were extremely robust, and adapted to the cold. But "giants" is normally interpreted to mean tall as well as large, so I don't think the Neanderthals would fit the bill. Bigfoot might qualify as a giant, but there's one small problem with that... Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2718 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, Coyote.
Coyote writes: But "giants" is normally interpreted to mean tall as well as large, so I don't think the Neanderthals would fit the bill. In defense of this statement:
quote: quote: Height is the primary characteristic of "giants" from the Bible (admittedly, Goliath isn't actually called a "giant" in the Bible, but still...). I'm Bluejay. Darwin loves you.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2126 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Those descriptions would make Bigfoot look small.
Sorry, I don't believe a word of it. (Good hooch that night?) Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2718 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, Coyote.
Coyote writes: Sorry, I don't believe a word of it. Well, that wasn't the point. I was just confirming your argument that Neanderthal couldn't have been the biblical "giants." This, I think, is a good, simple line of argumentation because it doesn't rely on radiometric dating, which would instantly turn this thread into another groaner. I'm Bluejay. Darwin loves you.
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Hi Peg,
quote: As I thought. I stand by my previous comments.
quote: a) Much bigger? I doubt very much that your book claims that. The claim is usually that their brains were marginally bigger; not enough to result in a giant. b) Your book is wrong anyway. Take another look at the Wiki;
Wiki writes: The assertion persists that neanderthal cranial capacity was much larger than modern humans, indicating their brain size may have been larger; however, a 1993 analysis of 118 hominid crania concluded that the cranial capacity of H.s. neandertal averaged 1412cc while that of fossil modern H.s. sapiens averaged 1487cc. I have checked out the reference for this study and it does indeed come to this conclusion. This is clear proof that Neanderthals were not the giants of the Bible. Well, that and the fact that they lived tens to hundreds of thousands of years ago. Just out of interest, when was your "book on archeology" published? Mutate and Survive "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2126 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Hi, Coyote.
Sorry, I misread the tone of your post. Coyote writes: Sorry, I don't believe a word of it. Well, that wasn't the point. I was just confirming your argument that Neanderthal couldn't have been the biblical "giants." This, I think, is a good, simple line of argumentation because it doesn't rely on radiometric dating, which would instantly turn this thread into another groaner. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4979 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi Deerbreh,
I just noticed this: who was about 7 feet tall if one can believe the text, Can I ask where you get this from? The reason I ask is because it is fairly well known in theology circles that Goliath was almost ten feet tall. The text says 6 cubits and a span, around 9ft 9in, some texts say "over 9 feet tall". At the back of my mind I recall that there was a text, perhaps in an early version of 1 Samuel where Goliath was described as 4 cubits and a span, which would fit in well with your information. Do you recall where you get your height for Goliath from as I am very interested in this. Many thanks.
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deerbreh Member (Idle past 2913 days) Posts: 882 Joined: |
I just noticed this: who was about 7 feet tall if one can believe the text, Can I ask where you get this from? The reason I ask is because it is fairly well known in theology circles that Goliath was almost ten feet tall. The text says 6 cubits and a span, around 9ft 9in, some texts say "over 9 feet tall". At the back of my mind I recall that there was a text, perhaps in an early version of 1 Samuel where Goliath was described as 4 cubits and a span, which would fit in well with your information. From the OP citing the Dead Sea Scrolls.....
Goliath was probably about seven feet tall according to the Dead Sea scrolls, which are the oldest record of the Book of Sam1.
Dead Sea scrolls say he was 4 cubits and a span. His armor was the same weight as described in the KJV though (125lbs).
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Brian Member (Idle past 4979 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Cheers mate, thanks for taking the time to point it out.
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4014 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
Minor digression
When the Windies cricket team were touring Australia, someone asked their 'giant' fast bowler, Joel Garner, if it was true that their tall men were 'hung' in proportion.Joel mulled it over for bit and said' Nah, that`s not true, because I`d have to be eight feet, six inches,'
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5259 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
"There were giants in the earth in those days" Gen. 6:4
This is much better translated: 'Men on the earth were arrogant in those days and also afterwards when these sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the tyrants of old, men of [who desired] renown.' The term 'sons of God' is an ironic one here, denoting the fall of man from his proper god-like state (which is humble and not high-handed).
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
This is much better translated: 'Men on the earth were arrogant in those days and also afterwards when these sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the tyrants of old, men of [who desired] renown.' Why is that a better translation?
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Hi ochaye, and welcome to EvC.
I wonder what you think about other references to giants in the Bible. Do you think that only Gen 6:4 is speaking of tyrants, or do you think that other Biblical references to giants have similar explanations? Mutate and Survive "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
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