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| Author | Topic: Speciation + Evolution = More Diversity | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days)  Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Hi RAZD,
Quick answer - evolution: But as Ned noted, speciation can occur by a mutation to the species, or some other cause, like his parasite in the fruit fly example. I figured that the species would evolve, but I meant more along the lines of, is this solely driven by environmental changes or can the species itself cause conditions to seperate? As Ned noted, both, but, a non-environmental speciation isn't covered in the links you gave me...
quote: ...so is it both or not?
It is not unusual for a species to inhabit several ecologies, making partial adaptations to each. If there is sufficient separation between ecologies, they can form hybrid zones in between pockets of relatively stable ecologies. The populations in those pockets will tend to adapt specifically to that pocket ecology, even though they can still share gene flow through the hybrid zones, eventually around to the other varieties. There is also an effect called the "Wallace Effect" (Alfred Russel Wallace was the "other" Darwin ... and is sometimes called the "father of biogeography": the "Wallace Line" is also named after him):
quote: According to this hybrid species will be eliminated. But as with the question I asked Ned, if 2 daughter species find themselves having to co-exist, would that cause one of the two to be eliminated?
Note that this means that a species in a stable environment will tend to select for the most average phenotype, and thus stay relatively the same from generation to generation Sexual selection...?
Depends on how you view extinction: they continue in each daughter population. Now it may be possible for an intermediate daughter population to go extinct, could even be due to competition from the end varieties if they overlap far enough, and that would de facto leave the remaining varieties - the ones that don't interbreed - as new species. When you say intermediate, would this be a the hybrid type, that will be selected against?
Yes. It doesn't matter as the result is the same: the daughter populations no longer share mutations by gene flow, and thus diverge from generation to generation. Ok.
I don't have too much trouble with creationist babel comments that discuss the topic, only when they try to move the topic to something else or dodge the issues. It seems like that's all they do. I've been waiting for this thread to take off since I had so much interest in it. It kept getting held up with deviating "comments".
Biostratigraphy takes the relative age relationships of layers, by the principle of superposition, and then finds the fossils that show the succession of life from generation to generation, from layer to layer, and looks for fossils that are specific to a single layer to then use as an "index fossil" to compare ages of layers in other locations. Except that I want to turn it around and look at the original stratigraphic data points that establish the lineage of the fossils in time. I want to find the succession of forms of life in the different layers, as was done for Pelycodus above, extending further than a single speciation event. Strato-biology anyone? We know from Pelycodus that as species evolve over time that they become different from their ancestors, and at some point reach sufficient difference that we poor humans need to arbitrarily divide them into different species to discuss those differences. This would also occur after speciation, and because there is no sharing of genes\mutations\hereditary traits between the two new species that each will go through this process in different ways. The questions are: how far does this divergence go, and how fast does it get there?
I wish you success in this, sorry, don't know shit about it. But, I will ask you questions when you figure it out.  Just a question that maybe along the lines of what you're looking for, wouldn't you say that there is no end to the divergence until something occurs to the species? "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
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