Evolution would've given us infrared eyesight

{Irrelevant blather hidden. Stop polluting the topic with such. - Adminnemooseus}Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above.

In response to bluescat48: I'm not sure how you can make this statement. Evolution is a system which exists within the universe. Were the universe altered even slightly, everything else would be different.Evolution depends exactly upon the universe being the way it is.

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- Rick

{Irrelevant blather hidden. Stop polluting the topic with such. - Adminnemooseus}Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above.

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Were it evolution based, an infrared cue of some sort would be of extreme benefit, even if it required significant evolutionary "capital" to get there, the reality is in the end it would be of much advantage.

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I believe that God gave man what was needed to operate here in this flesh. We don't need infrared because he provided us with a place to live and everything we needed to survive here.

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Holy cognitive dissonance, Batman! You gave me a mild case of whiplash by including these two completely inconsistent statements in the space of one post. Fortunately for me, my years of dealing with cdesign proponentist meanderings prepared me for such an event.Anyone want to propose an over-under for how long it will take Rick to see the inconsistency?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Hello Rick, welcome to EvC. How do you know this is the case? Have you observed a universe that is different than ours, and where evolution wasn't working?

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I hunt for the truth

And everything is different every few minutes, too.What makes you think, Rick, that people who accept evolution and people who don't accept gods don't love and help their neighbors?Edited by Coragyps, : No reason given.

My statement wasn't whether or not evolution is working. My statement was that whether or not evolution is working, whatever evolution IS is wholly dependent upon our universe being the way our universe is.Were our universe different, evolution (in whatever form it is believed to be) would also be different - by definition.

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- Rick

I know what your statement was, and the question still remains, how do you know? If you haven't observed a universe that is different than ours, you can't know if evolution would work differently there or not.

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I hunt for the truth

I didn't say that. I said (essentially) that arguing over evolution is a waste of time. That time would be better spent being nice to a cubicle neighbor at work, your co-worker on the assembly line, your mother, or to whomever is around you. I've spent probably 1.5 hours today in writing these responses. I happen to have an online job, so it's not that big of a stretch for me to be here. But, in my evening times I would choose not to be here. That's all I'm saying. The universe is different every minimum-finitely-divisible-unit-of-time. But, the laws the universe are based upon do not change. If they do, they're not laws.

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- Rick

In response to Huntard: I would argue that your statement is ridiculous. By definition, evolution is whatever evolution is in this universe, and it is that way because of the way this universe is. Were anything changed - even in the smallest degree - the resulting new (or alternate) universe would have a different version of evolution. And while the new/alternate universe might ultimately produce something which is even identical to that which evolution would in this universe, it would, by definition, still be different. It would be parallel, similar, congruent, etc. - but it would be different.That's my point.Edited by RickCHodgin, : Clarifying.Edited by RickCHodgin, : Adding intended.

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- Rick

Well, if you are gonna stick around. I'd like a reply to Message 38.Especially this part:

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Our universe has information built in to it. That information either spontaneously came into existence with so many harmonies, or it was created. If you're willing to accept the possibility that the universe, with all of its infinite size, scope, complexity and mathematical harmony, just happened ... then there you go - evolution becomes possible.

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First off, evolution doesn't have anything to do with cosmology.

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But lets explore your logic. You, yourself, are willing to accept the possibility that God, with all his "infinite size, scope, complexity and mathematical harmony," just happened, no? If not, who created God? If so, then why can't you give the same acceptance to the Universe itself.

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and this part too:

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As you are born again, you know Him and He speak to you spiritually and you know implicitly of His existence.

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How do you know that it is, in fact, Jesus?

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It could easily be the devil tricking you, no?

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But we don't know that for sure. It could very easliy be the exact same process of evolution. That's the beauty of simplicity.Random Mutation plus Natural Selection and you can get all the wonderous lifeforms of this planet. Slight changes probably wouldn't affect much at all. Then your point was pointless.

I have found your posts to be somewhat demeaning in tone, and I believe unjustifiably so. As such, I desire not to converse with you.

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- Rick

Really? Evolution is the change of populations over time, nothing more, nothing less, this could easily happen in a universe which is different form ours. Now, the Theory Of Evolution might not explain what is happening in that universe, but you can;t flatly state that evolution is something different there. But, ultimately, there's no way to tell. It would have the same version as ours, our theory to explain it might not fit the way it actually happens. But, again, there's no way to tell. The mechanism might be, the evolution itself is not. No way to tell and all. An my point is that without observing this other universe, we have no way to tell if this is the case. If I have one aquarium, suited to tropical fish, is it then reasonable for me to claim that no other aquarium can hold fish?

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I hunt for the truth

Well then, you can just fuck off and wallow in your ignorance.Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.