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Author
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Topic: the source of life
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 126 of 211 (496194)
01-26-2009 10:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 122 by Coyote
01-26-2009 9:01 PM
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Re: Goldilocks
Hi Coyote,
Coyote writes: Creation is not a theory; it is a religious belief. Actually I thought creation was an accepted fact. Are you saying that Einstein was right as he believed in a steady state, ageless Universe? I personally believe it has been here in some form forever. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 122 by Coyote, posted 01-26-2009 9:01 PM | | Coyote has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 129 of 211 (496209)
01-27-2009 1:47 AM
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Reply to: Message 127 by Coyote
01-26-2009 10:33 PM
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Re: Goldilocks
Hi Coyote,
Coyote writes: I think you'll have to provide evidence for that claim. Either the universe has always existed or it was created. The universe was born, came into being. Created definition 1: to bring into existence.
Source Stephen Hawking writes: The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago. Last Updated ( Tuesday, 12 February 2008 20:20 )
Source Stephen Hawking believes it had a beginning.
About ten billion years ago, the Universe began in a gigantic explosion - the Hot Big Bang! Its subsequent evolution from one hundredth of a second up to the present day can be reliably described by the Big Bang model. This includes the expansion of the Universe, the origin of light elements and the relic radiation from the initial fireball , as well as a framework for understanding the formation of galaxies and other large-scale structures. In fact, the Big Bang model is now so well-attested that it is known as the standard cosmology. Source Cambridge Cosmology teaches the universe had a beginning. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 127 by Coyote, posted 01-26-2009 10:33 PM | | Coyote has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: Goldilocks
Hi homunculus,
homunculus writes: Dear lord! A creationist! A creationist around here is someone who believes God created the universe about 6000 years ago. I don't fit in there. Just about everyone believes in creation. If you don't believe in creation you have to believe as I do that the universe has always existed in some form. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 128 by homunculus, posted 01-26-2009 11:33 PM | | homunculus has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 131 by Larni, posted 01-27-2009 3:51 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 144 of 211 (496326)
01-27-2009 6:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 140 by Rahvin
01-27-2009 3:42 PM
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Re Life
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: Indeed, even the direct creation of the first life through "God magic" would qualify as abiogenesis - in Genesis, when God "breathed the breath of life" into his clay Adam, non-living matter became living. Even Creationists have to accept that abiogenesis happened on principle. Incorrect. Life can only come from life. The English words in Genesis 2:7 seem pretty plain. God breathed into him the breath of life. Life had to exist for God to transfer life to the man He had formed. God is alive. He has a Mind, Spirit and Body. So no, God believing creationist do not have to accept that abiogenesis happened period. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 140 by Rahvin, posted 01-27-2009 3:42 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 153 of 211 (496357)
01-27-2009 9:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 145 by Rahvin
01-27-2009 7:30 PM
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Re Life
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: And as far as God being alive or not...well, it would be awfully tricky to fit God with any scientific definition of life, since we can't observe him. Well He came to earth lived among man for 33 1/2 years. He got hungry like we do. He bled like we do. He walked and talked like we do. He was even crucified and died like we do. He was resurrected like we will be. Just in case you don't think Jesus was God in John 10:30 He said: "I and my Father are one." Yes He is Life and He is alive forevermore.
Rahvin writes: Genesis specifically states that God Created man from dust, Actually it says:
2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Man is made of these elements. oxygen carbon hydrogen nitrogen calcium phosphorus potassium sulfur sodium chlorine magnesium iron fluorine zinc silicon rubidium strontium bromine lead copper aluminum cadmium cerium barium iodine tin titanium boron nickel selenium chromium manganese arsenic lithium cesium mercury germanium molybdenum cobalt antimony silver niobium zirconium lanthanium gallium tellurium yttrium bismuth thallium indium gold scandium tantalum vanadium thorium uranium samarium beryllium tungsten God knew what He was looking for and where to find them.
Rahvin writes: Life as defined in terrestrial terms did not eternally exist in the Bible - it had to be Created by God. If you could tell me when the beginning was I might agree with you. But no one has been able to do that yet. God Bless, Edited by ICANT, : correct quote
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 145 by Rahvin, posted 01-27-2009 7:30 PM | | Rahvin has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re Life
Hi Capt,
Capt Stormfield writes: I have noticed that some chunks of body stay alive when they are moved to a different body, I am a organ donor. Yes if they have a host they can survive. But can they surive on their own? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re Life
Hi Capt,
Capt Stormfield writes: That depends what you mean by "on their own". Like not attached to a living human body. OR, A machine designed to keep them alive. In other words if you cut the heart out of a living human being and laid it on a table how long would the cells be alive?
Capt Stormfield writes: Do you have any information to offer on the nature of the life that you believe God breathed into the hardware portion of the first man? The central processing unit called the mind.
Capt Stormfield writes: Say you could do a brain transplant. But you can't. But it does not matter what body the mind and the spirit occupy they stay the same. The body including your brain and all the plumbing in the body will die and decompose. The mind and the Spirit are eternal and will never die. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re Life
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes: Does all life have a "mind"? I don't find where God breathed the breath of life into anything other than the first man which was the first life form. This event only happened one time. He does not say how He imparted life to anything else. He did cause life forms to exist. Plants, animals, fowl and fish, but He does not give the details. So you don't mind if I don't speculate do you? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 170 by Straggler, posted 01-28-2009 4:55 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re Life
Hi Capt,
Capt Stormfield writes: To expand a bit on Straggler's question, is it fair to say that you are suggesting that only humans have a mind? Actually I was suggesting that only humans had a mind and spirit. I guess I misunderstood you as I thought you were asking what God breathed into man. But you was actually asking what God inserted in the hardware and specifically the brain of man. The mind is not part of the brain just as the spirit is not part of the mind. The brain is a part of the body, and all three make a man. That was the reason I made the statement: "But it does not matter what body the mind and the spirit occupy they stay the same."
Capt Stormfield writes: What is your evidence that the human brain has something extra that is not a property of the chemical activity taking place. I did not suggest that the human brain had a mind or spirit. The human brain is the center of the human nervous system and is the most complex organ in any creature on earth. The brain stores information and programs. But when a person dies the brain ceases to function just like any other part of the body. But the breath of life does not cease to function. The mind and spirit will live forever and when the resurrection happens they will have an eternal body.
Capt Stormfield writes: The can't part is just a matter of us developing a bit better technology in the plumbing and electrical department, isn't it? There are those who know a lot more about the human body than I do that say it is impossible. But maybe not.
Capt Stormfield writes: Or do you assign a special role to the brain vis the heart or liver? The brain is one organ that has a specific job to do and does very well until it is altered by drugs, accidents or disease.
Capt Stormfield writes: If yes, then what do you think it is that's special about the brain that makes it the home of the mind or spirit?
The brain is not the home of the mind and spirit. The mind and the spirit coexist with the body. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 175 of 211 (496543)
01-28-2009 10:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 172 by Straggler
01-28-2009 5:27 PM
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Re Life
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes: OK. Don't speculate. Let's take the biblical account absolutely literally. All plants were made to grow out of the ground. Every living creature was formed out of the ground. If it is alive it was formed. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 172 by Straggler, posted 01-28-2009 5:27 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re Life
Hi cat,
Bluescat48 writes: So then why isn't the chemical structure of creatures similar to the chemical structure of the ground. Do the animals have anything that can't be found in the ground? Just curious. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 181 of 211 (496822)
01-30-2009 8:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 178 by Straggler
01-29-2009 11:42 AM
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Re Life
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes: So is it God's breath or being "formed" that defines what is alive? You seem to be changing your story to suit your argument. I would speculate that since man was the only thing that received the breath of life that is what makes man different from everything else. When God formed animals the Bible does not say how they received life. But they did as Adam named living creatures. Genesis 2:19
Straggler writes: Is man formed? No, the first man was formed from the dust of the ground and God breathed into him the breath of life and he became a living soul. No other man was ever formed from the dust of the ground. The plants in Genesis 2:9 God made to grow out of the ground. The beasts and fowls in Genesis 2:19 were formed from the ground. There were no fish at this time. There was no coral at this time. Because there was no sea at this time. I am referring to the time man was formed from the dust of the ground. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 178 by Straggler, posted 01-29-2009 11:42 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re Life
Hi cat,
Bluescat48 writes: Not in a sense but what there is in minute quantities. As I stated earlier about 90% of the "Ground" is composed of the the oxides of Silicon, Aluminum & Iron in that order. Everything else, including non-life elements, is the remaining 10%. You left out Oxygen which is the most prevalent on both a weight and volume basis. You also did not mention the four that round out the top 8 that make up the majority of the mineral matter in soils. They are, magnesium, calcium, sodium, and potassium. Does not in a sense mean that an omnipotent God could have found all the elements in the ground He needed to form animals out of. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re Life
Hi Capt,
Capt Stormfield writes: So if we transplanted a different brain into a body The first problem you have to get by to accomplish this speculation is that "IF". There are quite a few learned men who say it is impossible. I don't know if it is or not.
Capt Stormfield writes: I gather you are suggesting that other animals do have a mind, if not a spirit. I have nothing that tells me they have either. Since I was raised on a farm I do know that animals can be trained and they have some hardwired programing that is fantastic. They never try to be anything other than what they are.
Capt Stormfield writes: What exactly was man's brain doing before God added these invisible components? Well lets see, God had just formed the human body from the dust of the ground. It would have been like a complete human body that had no life in it. In other words nothing was working. When God breathed the breath of life into him the man became a living breathing human being. When the spirit and mind leave the body it will not function. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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