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Author Topic:   Which Version of the Bible is the Word of God?
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2067 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 31 of 174 (496333)
01-27-2009 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Peg
01-27-2009 4:52 PM


Re: What is a "literal translation"?
prophecy, and there are many very accurate prophecies that have come true

O.k., let`s say hypothetically, that you are right. Who do you think this prophecy refers to?

Isaiah 7:14 (KJV) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Peg, posted 01-27-2009 4:52 PM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Peg, posted 01-28-2009 4:16 AM Nighttrain has responded

    
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2185
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 32 of 174 (496398)
01-28-2009 2:53 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Peg
01-27-2009 2:48 AM


Re: What is a "literal translation"?
Peg writes:

all bibles in their original languages are the word of God

all bibles that have been translated correctly are the word of God

I would even go so far as to say that all bible translations are the word of God. Unfortunately, some of them are just badly translated.

You are proving difficult to pin down. Could you tell us which are properly translated and which are poorly translated?

Buz said the word of God is the KJV and the ASV. That is a bit more specific, if not just a bit provincial.


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon

The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Peg, posted 01-27-2009 2:48 AM Peg has responded

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Peg
Member (Idle past 3003 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 33 of 174 (496400)
01-28-2009 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Nighttrain
01-27-2009 7:23 PM


Re: gimme those oldtime MS
a lot is to be said for the ancient copyists
they did not need to author their work because they were not 'tranlsators' they were merely making copies of the original writers work

so it wouldnt be reasonable to expect that a copy be signed by the person who copied it. Ezra was a skilled copiest and the jews had many such men trained to make copies of the scrolls.

In one way, the writers of the bible are not the all important thing, but it is still very well established who the original writers were.
Most identify themselves within the writing.

Edited by Peg, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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 Message 38 by Brian, posted 01-28-2009 9:51 AM Peg has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3003 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 34 of 174 (496402)
01-28-2009 4:16 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Nighttrain
01-27-2009 7:34 PM


Re: What is a "literal translation"?
Math 1.23 applies that prophecy to Jesus

the meaning of the name Immanuel is 'With Us Is God'


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Nighttrain, posted 01-27-2009 7:34 PM Nighttrain has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Nighttrain, posted 01-28-2009 6:36 AM Peg has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3003 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 35 of 174 (496403)
01-28-2009 4:28 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by anglagard
01-28-2009 2:53 AM


Re: What is a "literal translation"?
anglagard writes:

Could you tell us which are properly translated and which are poorly translated?

Buz said the word of God is the KJV and the ASV.

tell me anglagard, what would you rather read

A. a translation made into english, directly from one of the existing bible manuscripts such as the Greek Septuagint

or

B. a new translation made from an existing english translation that has been translated from a pre existing english translation?


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Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Nighttrain, posted 01-29-2009 2:35 AM Peg has responded

    
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2067 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 36 of 174 (496416)
01-28-2009 6:36 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Peg
01-28-2009 4:16 AM


Re: What is a "literal translation"?
Math 1.23 applies that prophecy to Jesus
the meaning of the name Immanuel is 'With Us Is God'

Matt 1:23 calls him Emmanuel. Same feller?

Matt 1:21(KJV)-And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shall call his name Jesus--------

Matt 1:25-and knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name 'Jesus'.

Now Immanuel occurs twice in the OT, while Emmanuel appears only once. A total of three in the Bible. Let`s suppose they are identical. Regardless of what the name means (Jesus/Yeshua could mean He who walks with a limp), A proper name is a proper name. a literal name is a literal name. Can you show me where 'Jesus' is called 'Immanuel/Emmanuel'? Or do you think the Isaiah quote mine might be wrong?

Edited by Nighttrain, : Tidied typos


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 Message 34 by Peg, posted 01-28-2009 4:16 AM Peg has responded

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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2263 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 37 of 174 (496432)
01-28-2009 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Peg
01-28-2009 4:09 AM


Re: gimme those oldtime MS
In one way, the writers of the bible are not the all important thing, but it is still very well established who the original writers were.
Most identify themselves within the writing.

Again this is not evidence as to the writer or that what is written is truth. Anyone can write a story and give the implication that the main character in the story is the writer.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969


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Brian
Member (Idle past 3032 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 38 of 174 (496442)
01-28-2009 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Peg
01-28-2009 4:09 AM


Re: gimme those oldtime MS
but it is still very well established who the original writers were.

Every single Old Testament book is anonymous, no one knows who wrote any of them.

This is basic Sunday School level stuff Peg.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Peg, posted 01-28-2009 4:09 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Peg, posted 01-29-2009 5:37 AM Brian has responded

    
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2067 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 39 of 174 (496556)
01-29-2009 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Peg
01-28-2009 4:28 AM


Message to Peg
Peg, you seem like a sincere person (and an Aussie to boot- oi,oi,oi),and I`d be sorry to see you leave, so do you mind if I give you a few tips?

1. Don`t attempt too many threads at the same time as posters here from long experience are information-dense and rebuttals can be time-consuming.You can burn out in a short time from the overload.

2. Don`t take replies as Gospel (:-)) but do your own study and draw your own conclusions. Try to avoid exact quotes from the main creationist websites as they have some agenda to keep erroneous information posted even when shown they are wrong.

3. If evo posters get a bit gruff, it might be because of a long train of rabid creationists bursting in and saying something like 'Evolution is a pack of atheist lies. What do you say to that? Huh?' Then after a thread length of around 300 careful, explanatory posts, the originator departs and a new boy blows in with something along the same lines.

4. EVC is one of the best learning sites on the Web with specialists from many sciences passing on their knowledge. For free. It can be an eye-opener if you stay for the long haul.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Peg, posted 01-28-2009 4:28 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
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Peg
Member (Idle past 3003 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 40 of 174 (496559)
01-29-2009 5:26 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Nighttrain
01-28-2009 6:36 AM


Re: What is a "literal translation"?
nighttrain writes:

Can you show me where 'Jesus' is called 'Immanuel/Emmanuel'? Or do you think the Isaiah quote mine might be wrong?

its certainly not a quote mine. In verse 23, mathew is applying the scripture to jesus, hence why he says 'emmanuel'

in verse 21 of my kjv, it uses the name 'emmanuel'

and vs 25 explains that after joseph had accepted mary and the child, he called his name Jesus.

Christians today to not have to interpret these things because quite clearly, the bible writers themselves provide the interpretation and the application of such prophecies. Mathew does in this instance, he says that the prophecy of Isiah is fullfilled in Jesus. As a christian, i must accept their interpretation.

Other names were foretold for the Messiah too. Isaiah 9:6 states “His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

Yet none of these were used as personal names for Jesus. Emmanuel was never meant to be a personal name for jesus either. The significance is in the meaning of the name...'with us is God'


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Peg
Member (Idle past 3003 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 41 of 174 (496560)
01-29-2009 5:37 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Brian
01-28-2009 9:51 AM


Re: gimme those oldtime MS
Brian writes:

Every single Old Testament book is anonymous, no one knows who wrote any of them.
This is basic Sunday School level stuff Peg.

There is no question as to who wrote Genesis. “The book of the law of Moses” and similar references to the first five books of the Bible, of which Genesis is one, are to be found often from the time of Moses’ successor, Joshua, onward. In fact, there are some 200 references to Moses in 27 of the later Bible books. Moses’ writership has never been questioned by the Jews.


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 Message 38 by Brian, posted 01-28-2009 9:51 AM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Huntard, posted 01-29-2009 5:43 AM Peg has not yet responded
 Message 45 by Brian, posted 01-29-2009 1:48 PM Peg has responded
 Message 46 by Granny Magda, posted 01-29-2009 4:03 PM Peg has responded

    
Huntard
Member (Idle past 368 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 42 of 174 (496562)
01-29-2009 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Peg
01-29-2009 5:37 AM


Re: gimme those oldtime MS
Peg writes:

There is no question as to who wrote Genesis. “The book of the law of Moses” and similar references to the first five books of the Bible, of which Genesis is one, are to be found often from the time of Moses’ successor, Joshua, onward. In fact, there are some 200 references to Moses in 27 of the later Bible books. Moses’ writership has never been questioned by the Jews.


Yes there is. There are at least FOUR different authors for Genesis (and the other four books too, I believe) alone. These are called J, E, P, and D, if I remember correctly. After Jehovah, Elohim, Priestly and Deutoronomy.

I'll dig up a nice documentary on who wrote the bible for you to watch, you'll have to wait until this evening (my time) before I can link you to it though.


I hunt for the truth
This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Peg, posted 01-29-2009 5:37 AM Peg has not yet responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3003 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 43 of 174 (496563)
01-29-2009 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Nighttrain
01-29-2009 2:35 AM


Re: Message to Peg
thanks for the tip nighttrain

i do find the posts to contain a lot of information so i deliberately dont answer every poster and i dont go into too many threads

or i might pick just one or two points to reply to...hope they dont mind

but im enjoying evc. i have another forum that i usually post on, but they decided to ban religious discussions, so i had to find a forum where i could keep the conversations going.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Nighttrain, posted 01-29-2009 2:35 AM Nighttrain has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 368 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 44 of 174 (496622)
01-29-2009 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Peg
01-29-2009 5:47 AM


Re: Message to Peg
Peg,

As promised, here is the documentary I talked about. I suggest you watch it, to see what is actually known about the bible and its authors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbC_Bg1H-BI&feature=PlayList&p=D26E40B7D61258ED&index=0&playnext=1

The playlist should be activated, if not, click "play all" to the right of the video, sit back, and enjoy the ride. :)


I hunt for the truth
This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Peg, posted 01-29-2009 5:47 AM Peg has not yet responded

    
Brian
Member (Idle past 3032 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 45 of 174 (496629)
01-29-2009 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Peg
01-29-2009 5:37 AM


Re: gimme those oldtime MS
There is no question as to who wrote Genesis.

Of course there is. It is generally accepted that there was at least 4 authors, or schools, involved in contructing the Book of Genesis. Why do think there are so many anachronisms in the texts? How can Moses have written about things that happened after he was dead? Also, why do we have 2 different creation myths and two different Flood myths? If there was only one author of The Book of Genesis then it would not be in the mess that it is in, it would read far more smoothly.

“The book of the law of Moses” and similar references to the first five books of the Bible, of which Genesis is one, are to be found often from the time of Moses’ successor, Joshua, onward.

But this doesn't prove anything Peg? Nowhere in the Book of Genesis is the author identified, or even hinted at.

Personally, I do not think that Moses even existed, the fact that we don't even know his name is a pretty bad slip up.

Moses’ writership has never been questioned by the Jews.

You really need to stop pulling these ridiculous statements out of your butt.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Peg, posted 01-29-2009 5:37 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Peg, posted 01-29-2009 7:05 PM Brian has responded

    
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