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Author Topic:   51 scientific facts that disprove the Bible
Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1360 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 16 of 167 (496474)
01-28-2009 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Brian
01-28-2009 11:28 AM


Re: Our own list?
4) The Earth is not 6-10,000 years old
5) There was never a global Flood event
6) Species arise gradually through evolution, not suddenly via special Creation

Gotta include the obvious ones!


This message is a reply to:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3072 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 17 of 167 (496476)
01-28-2009 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Taz
01-28-2009 12:00 PM


Re: Our own list?
The mountains don't literally drop with wine either, and last time someone was pulling my leg or mentioned there is more than one way to skin a cat, neither my leg was pulled, nor did anyone skin a cat.

The other day someone discussed a quantum leap but since it was not observed, did it occur?

Then on TV, someone said maybe we could see the light at the end of the tunnel on the housing crisis, but I couldn't find any homes in tunnels.

A friend said we were living in high cotton but we never lived in a cotton field.....weird.

Edited by randman, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3072 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 18 of 167 (496480)
01-28-2009 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Rahvin
01-28-2009 12:21 PM


Re: Our own list?
Few points:

1. The Bible does not say the earth is 6000 years old. Could be a young earth but the Bible does not say that. Nor does the Bible even say the past is immutable.

2. Plenty of people disagree on the global flood event but regardless, the Bible does not say the flood was necessarily global. Could be or could be not.

3. We see absolutely no evidence of gradualistic evolution as you claim but that's a different topic. Suffice to say for here is that despite imo Darwinism being wrong, the Bible does not say it is, at least for most species. The Bible does suggest God specially intervened to create mankind but even there, it does not specify all the details.


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Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 64 days)
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 19 of 167 (496487)
01-28-2009 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by randman
01-28-2009 12:37 PM


Re: Our own list?
Hi Randman,

quote:
2. Plenty of people disagree on the global flood event but regardless, the Bible does not say the flood was necessarily global. Could be or could be not.

Don't be silly.

Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

All flesh. Everything that is in the earth. If the flood was not global, why would everything die? If they died for reasons other than the flood, why mention the flood here? Why even have a flood?

Gen 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

Again, that is every living substance. Not just some.

Gen 7:19-20 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Note all the high hills were covered, not just some.

7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

Only Noah and his party lived. This clearly not an isolated event.

It doesn't say "some of the earth" or "the known Earth", it says only "the earth". It also says that every living thing was killed (save Noah and co.). That pretty clearly describes a worldwide flood. Trying to interpret it otherwise is to mangle the intent of the text (see tagline).

PS; 7) The mustard seed is not the smallest seed.

Mutate and Survive


"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
This message is a reply to:
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Brian
Member (Idle past 3133 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 20 of 167 (496488)
01-28-2009 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by randman
01-28-2009 12:27 PM


Re: Our own list?
Last year I was playing in an 8 Ball Pool singles match, it was the best of 11 frames.

I was 4-0 down and came back from the dead to win 6-4.

Edited by Brian, : No reason given.


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Taz
Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 21 of 167 (496491)
01-28-2009 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by randman
01-28-2009 12:27 PM


Re: Our own list?
Randman, I'm not going to play dumb or purposely being dense.

For as long as I can remember, you people have been telling me that the bible is literally true because it is literally the word of the one true god. Correct? I'm only doing what you people have been telling me to do all these years. If the bible says the Earth has corners, it must be literally true because it is literally the word of god.

Now, are you telling me that the bible is not literally true?


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Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 871 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 22 of 167 (496492)
01-28-2009 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Brian
01-28-2009 11:28 AM


Re: Our own list?
Hi, Brian.

(8) Insects have six legs, not four (Leviticus 11:20-23).
(9) Conception in the presence of striped sticks does not cause the offspring to be striped (Genesis 30: 37-43).

Edited by Bluejay, : I missed Granny's #7; I adjusted my numbers accordingly


-Bluejay/Mantis/Thylacosmilus

Darwin loves you.


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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3072 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 23 of 167 (496494)
01-28-2009 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Taz
01-28-2009 1:04 PM


Re: Our own list?
Literally true does not mean the Bible doesn't use figurative language to describe a literal truth. I don't see why that's so hard to understand.

No biblical literalist thinks Jesus was an actual lamb walking around on 4 legs, for example.


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Replies to this message:
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 Message 26 by bluescat48, posted 01-28-2009 1:47 PM randman has responded

Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 871 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


(1)
Message 24 of 167 (496497)
01-28-2009 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by randman
01-28-2009 1:10 PM


Re: Our own list?
Hi, Randman.

randman writes:

Literally true does not mean the Bible doesn't use figurative language to describe a literal truth.

As always, it's drawing the line that's the problem. How do you know where the figurative ends and the literal begins?

I was homeschooled one year, and my mother chose to use a Christian biology textbook. In a discussion in this text about the "image of God," the author actually quoted something like Psalm 61:4 as evidence that God had wings, and that man being created "in the image of God" was thus a figurative description.

Would you mind writing a new version of the Bible that denotes all the words in the Scriptures that are meant to be read literally, and which are meant to be read figuratively? That would be a tremendous benefit to all of us who are uncertain where to draw the line.

Edited by Bluejay, : Typing like a fourth grader


-Bluejay/Mantis/Thylacosmilus

Darwin loves you.


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Taz
Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 25 of 167 (496499)
01-28-2009 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by randman
01-28-2009 1:10 PM


Re: Our own list?
Ok, so if the bible sometimes uses figurative language, then does that mean that it doesn't have to be literally true that god created everything in 6 days and that noah's flood didn't have to have covered the entire world?

I'm having a hard time understanding how you can interpret some to be literal and others to be figurative.


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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2363 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 26 of 167 (496504)
01-28-2009 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by randman
01-28-2009 1:10 PM


Re: Our own list?
Literally true does not mean the Bible doesn't use figurative language to describe a literal truth. I don't see why that's so hard to understand.

So then how does one know which is which?

Is Lot's wife's turning into a pillar salt literal or figurative?
Is the serpent's talking to Eve literal or figurative?
Is Jesus' feeding 5000 with 5 loafs & 2 fishes literal or figurative?
Is the parting of the Red(Reed) Sea literal or figurative?
Is Jonah's 3 days in a fish's stomach literal or figurative?
Is Mathusale's living 969 years literal or figurative?


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Admin
Director
Posts: 12602
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 27 of 167 (496508)
01-28-2009 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by randman
01-28-2009 12:37 PM


Re: Our own list?
randman writes:

1. The Bible does not say the earth is 6000 years old. Could be a young earth but the Bible does not say that. Nor does the Bible even say the past is immutable.

Please do not play dumb. That the Earth is 6000 years old is what most creationists claim the Bible says. It would only be legitimate to dispute things creationists don't claim the Bible says.

3. We see absolutely no evidence of gradualistic evolution as you claim but that's a different topic.

Yes, that's right, it's not the topic of this thread.

You were on the edge of permanent suspension at the end of your last visit, and that hasn't changed. Read the Forum Guidelines and follow them scrupulously. Permanent suspensions are never reversed.

No replies to this message.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3072 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 28 of 167 (496510)
01-28-2009 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by bluescat48
01-28-2009 1:47 PM


Re: Our own list?
Looks like I need to drop off the thread. No malice or anything but my discussions of what the Bible says and the language could be off-limits here or maybe not....kind of hard to tell, but can't really risk it.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Admin
Director
Posts: 12602
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 29 of 167 (496523)
01-28-2009 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by randman
01-28-2009 2:40 PM


Re: Our own list?
randman writes:

Looks like I need to drop off the thread. No malice or anything but my discussions of what the Bible says and the language could be off-limits here or maybe not....kind of hard to tell, but can't really risk it.

Maybe you really didn't understand what I said. And maybe you really didn't understand what Granny Magda said and what Otto Tellick said over at So Just How is ID's Supernatural-based Science Supposed to Work?. Or maybe you're just playing games again. We'll never know because I'm permanently suspending you.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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Brian
Member (Idle past 3133 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 30 of 167 (496628)
01-29-2009 1:38 PM


List at Ten facts
Updated list.

1. The Sun does not orbit the Earth.
2. Pi does not equal 3.
3. There ain't no corners of the Earth.
4. The Earth is not 6-10,000 years old
5. There was never a global Flood event
6. Species arise gradually through evolution, not suddenly via
special Creation
7. The mustard seed is not the smallest seed.
8. Insects have six legs, not four (Leviticus 11:20-23).
9. Conception in the presence of striped sticks does not cause the offspring to be striped (Genesis 30: 37-43).
10. Eating a fruit does not pass on knowledge about the word around us. (courtesy of Origen)


Replies to this message:
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