|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total) |
| |
popoi | |
Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 4446 days) Posts: 88 From: Katrinaville USA Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Did any author in the New Testament actually know Jesus? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4930 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
im sorry, i just saw in my quote i had his birth year as 110CE... its not, its 37C.E. I have this date in a previous post also, but not sure how i managed to type in 110CE here.
So you obviously didnt look up the age of Josephus... you would have seen my error if you had. I refered to his birth year because this is only a few years after the death of Jesus. This meant that Josephus was a young man during the founding years of christianity. He did become a Pharisee at age 19, so his schooling started quite young...by age 26 he was being sent as a diplomat to Rome to seek the release of jewish prisoners. this makes Josephus a contemporary of the early church including the Apostles who were with Jesus.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4930 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
its very relevant
If we are to scrutinize history by the word of scholars, then why must we only accept the word of scholars of our own day and age and not the word of scholars who were actually living during the times we are analyzing?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Huntard Member (Idle past 2295 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Peg writes:
We should accept the word of the scholars that have evidence to support their claims. Everything else is irrelevant. ts very relevant If we are to scrutinize history by the word of scholars, then why must we only accept the word of scholars of our own day and age and not the word of scholars who were actually living during the times we are analyzing? I hunt for the truth
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4930 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
i agree, supporting evidence is a good thing
do you think that ancient historians had no supporting evidence?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Huntard Member (Idle past 2295 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
i agree, supporting evidence is a good thing
I haven't seen any of their evidence. Further, they were Christians, bit hard to say the gospel isn't true when you believe it is. do you think that ancient historians had no supporting evidence? I hunt for the truth
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4930 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
what do you think the gospels accounts and the books of the christain scriptures are?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Huntard Member (Idle past 2295 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Peg writes:
The mythification of Jesus. According to the long line of similar mythical figures that came before him. what do you think the gospels accounts and the books of the christain scriptures are? I hunt for the truth
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4930 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
one problem with that is that myths go away after time
another problem is that people dont lay their life down for something they know to be a myth nor do historians testify that a mythical person was a real person nor do we set our calanders by the supposed date of the birth of a myth
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
8upwidit2 Member (Idle past 4446 days) Posts: 88 From: Katrinaville USA Joined: |
Peg wrote: "one problem with that is that myths go away after time"
Peg, I think this one (Christianity)would have gone the way of earlier supernatural myths had it not been for Constantine making Christianity the official Roman state religion. And the Romans spreading it all around Europe by the sword. Take Constantine out of the formula and Christianity would have been history like the other myths before it. Peg again wrote: "another problem is that people dont lay their life down for something they know to be a myth." I agree but there have been gillions who have given their lives for what they THOUGHT were truths but in reality were myths.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Huntard Member (Idle past 2295 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Peg writes:
But they didn't know it to be a myth, they thought it actually happened. But believing something happened and it actually having happened are different things altogether. {ABE} As I asked you before: "So when Islamic terrorists believe they get 72 virgins when they fly a plane into a building, that's true?"
one problem with that is that myths go away after time another problem is that people dont lay their life down for something they know to be a myth nor do historians testify that a mythical person was a real person
Yes they do.
nor do we set our calanders by the supposed date of the birth of a myth
Yes you do. Although the date is off by a few years. Edited by Huntard, : added {ABE} bit I hunt for the truth
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kapyong Member (Idle past 3442 days) Posts: 344 Joined: |
Gday Peg,
Thanks for your reply...
Peg writes: some scholars of today also claim that Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a sexual relationship and evidence of this is seen in some of the paintings of Leonardo Da Vinchi LOL No mainstream scholar claims this nonsense, merely popular writers. You seem to have trouble identifying actual scholars and historians.
Peg writes: The apostle Peter wrote 1st and 2nd Peter. 1Peter opens with a salutation 'Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the temporary residents scattered about...' so here is just one book that identifies an apostle of Christ as the writer. Can you somehow disprove this? Peg -1 Peter dates to 80-110, 2 Peter dates to 100-160. Modern scholars agree that neither letter was actually by Peter. 1 Peter 2 Peter Can YOU produce any EVIDENCE that Peter wrote those letters?(Not claims and beliefs of other later Christians - but actual historical evidence.) Kapyong Edited by Kapyong, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kapyong Member (Idle past 3442 days) Posts: 344 Joined: |
Gday,
Peg writes: im sorry, i just saw in my quote i had his birth year as 110CE... its not, its 37 C.E. I have this date in a previous post also, but not sure how i managed to type in 110CE here. So you obviously didnt look up the age of Josephus... you would have seen my error if you had. Oh, that's rich !I have identified numerous errors in your posts and you have ignored it all (e.g. your erroneous claim that Justin Martyr identified the Gospels writers.) Now you jump on my missing a tiny un-important error, while you continue to ignore the serious errors in your claims about Josephus and other issues. Peg writes: I refered to his birth year because this is only a few years after the death of Jesus. Yup -you distort the data to bring Josephus as close as possible to the time of the alleged Jesus, as if Josephus could absorb history through his skin from birth. In fact, Josephus' comment about Jesus is from over 50 years later, and is clearly not 100% authentic. Peg writes: This meant that Josephus was a young man during the founding years of christianity. He did become a Pharisee at age 19, so his schooling started quite young...by age 26 he was being sent as a diplomat to Rome to seek the release of jewish prisoners. this makes Josephus a contemporary of the early church including the Apostles who were with Jesus. Only IF you assume they existed.But you have failed to show they did exist at all. Josephus wrote a great deal - he NEVER mentions meeting any Christians ever. Can you produce any evidence he did? The passage in Josephus is either tampered with, or totally forged. Did you know that ? Kapyong
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kapyong Member (Idle past 3442 days) Posts: 344 Joined: |
Gday,
Peg writes: If we are to scrutinize history by the word of scholars, then why must we only accept the word of scholars of our own day and age Peg -you keep calling ancient faithful Christian believers "scholars" and "historians" and believing them over modern informed experts. Peg writes: and not the word of scholars who were actually living during the times we are analyzing? Ok then -how about these : Celsus attacked the Gospels as fiction based on myths :"Clearly the christians have used...myths... in fabricating the story of Jesus' birth...It is clear to me that the writings of the christians are a lie and that your fables are not well-enough constructed to conceal this monstrous fiction" Porphyry claimed the Gospels were invented :"... the evangelists were inventors - not historians” Julian claimed Jesus was spurious, counterfeit, invented :"why do you worship this spurious son...a counterfeit son", "you have invented your new kind of sacrifice ". Julian was "convinced that the fabrication of the Galilaeans is a fiction of men composed by wickedness.." So,do you accept the word of those ancient writers, Peg ? Kapyong
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kapyong Member (Idle past 3442 days) Posts: 344 Joined: |
Gday,
Peg writes: another problem is that people dont lay their life down for something they know to be a myth Firstly - no-one claimed they "laid their life down for something they know to be a myth" at all. That's NOT the claim - people DO often believe things that are not true. The problem here Peg, is that you seem to believe that BELIEFS are the same as facts. Do you accept the faithful beliefs of Muslims in the same way? Secondly - people DO lay down their lives for false beliefs (suicide bombers, 9/11 terrorists, Heaven's gate cult etc. etc.) Thirdly - the legends of Christian martyrs are late un-sourced stories, there is no actual early evidence it happened.
Peg writes: nor do historians testify that a mythical person was a real person Again, you have confused historians with faithful believers of your religion. Peg -do you believe what Muslims say about Mohamed ? do you believe what Theosophists say about HPB ? do you believe what Heaven's gate cult said about Applethwaite ? do you believe Charles Manson's disciples who claim to have personally eye-witnessed him levitating a bus over a stream? Hmm? Do you believe those stories, Peg ? People believe all sorts of claims that are wrong, including believing in myths. Ancient peoples believed in, and wrote about :* Zeus etc. * Hercules * Bacchus * Aesculapius * Apollo * etc. etc. Do you believe in all those figures, Peg? Or do you only believe writers who agree with your faith? Please answer. Modern people STILL believe in fictions, myths or legends:* Adam * Moses * Sherlock Holmes * Perry Mason * John Frum * Ned Ludd * Don Juan (Carlos Castaneda's master) * the ascended masters These are fictions which some people believe TODAY.Does that make them real, Peg? Hmmm? Peg writes: nor do we set our calanders by the supposed date of the birth of a myth Peg,our calendar was created several CENTURIES after the alleged time of Christ, and got the date wrong. Do you really believe that is prooof of anything? Did you know we have MANY different calendars in use in the world ?Does the Jewish calendar prove the Flood happened? Does the Zoroastrian calendar proved Zoroaster existed? Kapyong
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.0 |
Hi Peg,
quote: Really? How much time? By this logic, Shiva must be real as well, since his worship is as least as old as Christ's.
quote: As has been pointed out, just because some people think something is real enough to die for, does not mean that they are correct. By this logic Islam is true, just because there are suicide bombers who think it is.
quote: Do they not? Are they perfect? Why the faith in some historians when you reject others out of hand? Is it because they are saying what you want to hear?
quote: Truly ridiculous. The Calendar we use is basically an updated form of the Julian calendar which pre-dates Jesus (the clue is in the name). Further, the practise of using Anno Domini dates back only to the sixth century when it was cooked up by committed Christians. What do you expect a Christian monk to base his system on? The Buddha? You are clutching at straws. Mutate and Survive "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024