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Author Topic:   the source of life
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 185 of 211 (496830)
01-30-2009 11:34 PM


Buzsaw Source Of Life Hypothesis
I've been reading this thread for an hour or so. By doing so I have been reminded of how the people of different ideologies look at life, origins etc and how different folks arrive at conclusions.
While reading, as an ID Biblical creationist I've been thinking about how to express my own POV on the source of life.
Here's what keeps me into the Biblical literal Genesis hypothesis relative to the source of life:
1. No creation of energy is observed. Thus I assume that all energy is eternal.
2. Since all energy is eternal that does not contradict the Biblical record.
3. Observation attests to the likelihood that life comes from life. Therefore the likelihood of the source of life being an eternal source does not contradict the Biblical record.
4. Observation attests to the likelihood that complex design is effected by a designer. Again, no contradiction to the Biblical record.
5. Scientifically speaking, the more corroborating evidence there is supportive of a/an hypothesis there is, the more credible the hypothesis.
6. Though there are debatable aspects of the Biblical record, there are historical, prophetic fulfillments, archaeological, social, and experiential corroborating evidences supportive of the Biblical record.
7. The more corroborative evidences that can be cited supportive to any historical record, the more under girded the questionable and unsupported portions of the record become. As in working with science theory and hypotheses, math, etc; the unknowns are accepted or incorporated by alleged knowns by the proponents of a given hypothesis or theory
In conclusion, There are just too many supportive evidences relative to the Biblical record and too many questionable science related problems with the unknowns of the naturalistic/secularistic mainline science POV pertaining to the source of life.
Having said the above, I realize that to discuss any or all of the above in debth would lead off topic. There are other threads where we have done and can do this.
I am unable to fully support all of my reasons for holding to the literalistic Biblical POV or to refute all of the arguments to the contrary. I remain with where I see the most evidence.
The above is not to mention the overwhelming personal experiential day by day evidence which I experience personally through application of the Biblical gospel and Biblical principles to my life and observation of that pertaining to many friends and family who are Biblicalists. Of course, these evidences are moot so far as convincing someone else by them alone. These simply corroborate the above cited evidences which assure me that the narrow road that leads to life is the cool way to go.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Blue Jay, posted 01-31-2009 1:26 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 188 by Straggler, posted 01-31-2009 4:32 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 189 by PaulK, posted 01-31-2009 5:19 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 193 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-31-2009 7:04 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 191 of 211 (496977)
01-31-2009 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Blue Jay
01-31-2009 1:26 AM


Re: Buzsaw Source Of Life Hypothesis
Bluejay writes:
Take off the shades, man: you'll get a much clearer view of the evidence without them.
Hi Bluejay. Very cute and comment. Shades are cool, you know, and perhaps suited to folks who walk in the brightness of enlightenment.
Having read most of your input in this thread (I tend to hone in on your input as I regard it to be fair and balanced, for the most part,) I am flattered that this is all you've come up with in response to the points of my message. Likely if there were substantial arguments to my points, you would have cited them.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Blue Jay, posted 01-31-2009 1:26 AM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Blue Jay, posted 02-01-2009 7:59 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 192 of 211 (496980)
01-31-2009 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Percy
01-31-2009 8:02 AM


Re: Assessment of Arguments
Percy writes:
Both theory and real-world evidence agree that energy and matter can be converted from one to the other, and the Casimir effect tells us that energy and matter can flit in and out of existence. Thus, energy is not eternal.
Does the Casimir effect empirically establish that energy can actually cease to exist or is it possible that it is changed to a state undetectable by humans? If energy can cease to exist does that falsify 1LoT, or does 1LoT falsify the Casimir effect?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Percy, posted 01-31-2009 8:02 AM Percy has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 194 of 211 (496994)
01-31-2009 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by DevilsAdvocate
01-31-2009 7:04 PM


Re: Buzsaw Source Of Life Hypothesis
DA writes:
Unknowns are not "accepted" in science. If it is unknown it is unknown until science can make it known. Scientific hypothesis and theories attempt to explain the previously unknown causes of known phenomena. That is mission statement of what science is all about i.e. making the unknown, known!
1. By "accepted" I mean they are acceptable aspects of the given hypothesis or theory. For example, the unknown aspects of the BB and of abiogenesis are integral to the scientific ideology.
2. Again, the points you made are debatable but this is not the place to diverge into them in debth. My purpose was to summarize my reasons for staying with the Biblical record and why I do not regard it as empirically falsified.
3. I regard the mysterious aspects of the Biblical record on origins to be no more so than the mysterious aspects of particle and negative energy physics, for example. For me, a source of eternal energy, design and life, as per the Biblical record, relative to what is observed, make more sense than what conventional science has to offer.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-31-2009 7:04 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-31-2009 9:02 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 197 by subbie, posted 01-31-2009 11:03 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 198 by Modulous, posted 02-01-2009 6:38 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 199 of 211 (497052)
02-01-2009 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by DevilsAdvocate
01-31-2009 9:02 PM


Re: Buzsaw Source Of Life Hypothesis
DA writes:
DA writes:
Myself writes:
Unknowns are not "accepted" in science. If it is unknown it is unknown until science can make it known. Scientific hypothesis and theories attempt to explain the previously unknown causes of known phenomena. That is mission statement of what science is all about i.e. making the unknown, known!
Buzsaw writes:
1. By "accepted" I mean they are acceptable aspects of the given hypothesis or theory. For example, the unknown aspects of the BB and of abiogenesis are integral to the scientific ideology.
You are not understanding what I am saying. A scientific theory explains what are the discovered and known causes of a phenomena. The unknown, undiscovered part(s) are left for future scientific theories to explain. Thus the BB theory only explains that which we currently understand and know, not that which we don't know or yet understand (though a theory can always be expounded, modified and refined with future evidence and observational/experimentation data).
OK, let's analyze our statements:
DA: Unknowns are not accepted in science.
Buz: unknown aspects of the BB and of abiogenesis are integral to the scientific ideology
DA: The unknown, undiscovered part(s) are left for future scientific theories to explain.
But BB science assumes T=O preceded the BB and there are unknowns & debatables relative to aspects of T=O; unknowns relative to where the energy came from, whether the energy was hidden in a vacuum as negative energy, what precipitated the expansion, etc.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-31-2009 9:02 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-01-2009 10:48 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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