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Author Topic:   Did any author in the New Testament actually know Jesus?
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 273 of 306 (497307)
02-03-2009 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by jaywill
02-03-2009 11:10 AM


Re: Extant writings
Jaywill writes:
Luke's Gospel is not really altogether anonymous by any means (Luke 1:1-3 comp Acts 1:1).
John's Gospel seems to have the writer virtually identify himself (John 20:20,31; 21:20-25)
Mark's Gospel has a indication that he put his humble signature on it when it spoke somewhat arbitrarily of the young man who ran away naked. That is when the guards grabbed Jesus and they also laid hold of a youth who slipped out of his cloths and escaped into the night.
Matthew's indication is in the manner in which he listed the pairs of the original twelve disciples.
I think you are hung up on always looking for a reasonable doubt. I think your mode of operation is to always pursue the skeptical scholarship of destructive higher criticism.
i.e. "To whatever the Christian church has said, the opposite posed by the skeptics and unbelievers is the prefered belief."
This text is written by the Easter Bunny, follow my commands, as I know the way!
Upon days when thou findest eggs, doth not think they commeth from the chicken, or from other feathery creatures hopping or flying around. NAY! They art put there by the one that knows the way, me!
These were the words of the Easter Bunny, follow my commands, as I know the way!
Can you see what I did there Jaywill? Just because some text claims it was written by such and such, doesn't mean it actually IS.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by jaywill, posted 02-03-2009 11:10 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by jaywill, posted 02-03-2009 12:41 PM Huntard has replied
 Message 282 by 8upwidit2, posted 02-03-2009 9:30 PM Huntard has replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 276 of 306 (497315)
02-03-2009 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by jaywill
02-03-2009 12:41 PM


Re: Extant writings
Yea. And I bet just because your mom says she's your mom doesn't mean she actually is either.
If the only thing I have is her word, then no, I wouldn't just accept that. Fortunately for me (and her ), she has a whole bunch of evidence to show me. And if all else fails, there's always a DNA test to see if she's telling the truth or not, but the evidence I have seen so far has convinced me she is in fact my mother. Should there ever come a time when I doubt that, I'm sure to get that DNA test.
Find me the date as best you can of the first recorded DOUBT that Matthew was not written by Matthew. I bet you can't go back more than a couple of hundred years.
And this is relevant how? Belief that something is true is not evidence that it's true.
But between first centurey Ireneus listed is as authentic.
Irenaeus was second century, LATE second century. Further he was a Christian, somehow I don't think he'd say the gospels were false.
And as far as the 5th century AD is see no church father naming it in a list of questionable apostolic books.
Of course the Church isn't going to claim that their own books are false, you can't build a religion that way.
So most trusted Dr. Johnny Come Lately, when did New Testament scholars first begin to raise doubts?
I'd say somewhere around the 18th century or so. Again, I fail to see how this is relevant. Either one has evidence that shows them to be authentic and true, or one does not. In the first case, no harm done, in the second, why claim them as true and authentic?

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by jaywill, posted 02-03-2009 12:41 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by jaywill, posted 02-04-2009 7:52 AM Huntard has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 284 of 306 (497393)
02-04-2009 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 282 by 8upwidit2
02-03-2009 9:30 PM


Re: Extant writings
8upwidit2 writes:
Huntard writes:
This text is written by the Easter Bunny, follow my commands, as I know the way!
Huntard, are you saying there is no Easter Bunny or that Jaywill has lost his marbles? This is some funnie stuff.
I was trying to point out that a text claiming to be written by someone is not evidence that that someone actually wrote the text. And since I assumed we all know the Easter Bunny doesn't exist, I used him (her, it?) as an example. Glad you liked it.
Oh, and I noticed you don't use the quote boxes. Check out this link to see how that is done, or use the peek button on the bottom right of my post to see how I did it. This will improve the look of your posts, and advance easy reading.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by 8upwidit2, posted 02-03-2009 9:30 PM 8upwidit2 has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 293 of 306 (497465)
02-04-2009 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 292 by 8upwidit2
02-04-2009 8:56 AM


Re: Time to post summaries
8upwidit2 writes:
Why close any discussion thread that has at least 3-6 posts a day since being opened?
All threads are normally closed at around 300 posts. Some are kept open a bit longer, but 400 is usually the absolute max.
This discussion can be continued by proposing a new thread and picking an element out of this discussion you want to continue on.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by 8upwidit2, posted 02-04-2009 8:56 AM 8upwidit2 has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 294 of 306 (497500)
02-04-2009 12:06 PM


Summation
Let's see how I do in this, my first summation.
Initially the thread was about if any author of the new testament actually knew Jesus. Some points were raised for and against, but it quickly became clear that in order to know if any of the authors knew him, we'd have to be able to determine who wrote the gospels.
Of the many points raised by those claiming that the authors were indeed the ones the gospels are named after, it has become clear to me that no such evidence exists.
It's certainly possible that the gospels were written by the apostles whose names they bear. However, given the fact that they are named one and a half century after they were supposedly written doesn't strengthen that case.
So, with all evidence available to me, I come to this final statement:
It is highly unlikely that the writers of the gospels ever knew Jesus, there is in any case, no evidence they did.

I hunt for the truth

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