EvC Forum: From protobionts to living cells

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Topic: From protobionts to living cells

Annafan

Member (Idle past 4597 days)

Posts: 418

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Joined: 08-08-2005

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Message 10 of 48 (497271)
02-03-2009 8:22 AM

Reply to: Message 9 by Cedre
02-03-2009 8:04 AM

Re: From protobionts to living cells - a response to Huntard

cedre writes:

Dear Huntard more than mere words will do to take me in, I want evidence laid out on the table before me to inspect for myself - hardcore evidence. And natural selection does not qualify as an evidence neither does cell mutation as neither process has been witnessed in the lab or in the wild to add new information to an indiviuals genome or to a population's gene pool. If I'm mistaken then present me with evidences to the contrary.

You will get plenty, but it would no longer be on-topic in this thread (just like the rest of your message). You should read around a bit and you'll notice that you simply rehashed arguments that have been addressed and refuted, many many many many times before. Nothing new under the sun.

But back to the topic: if you want to disprove evolution by concentrating on our current incomplete understanding of the origin of life, then you are barking up the wrong tree! This disconnect between abiogenesis and evolution is not even a point of contention. The theory of evolution is built upon a variety of evidence that is totally independent of the actual first origin of life. Not a single piece of that evidence is affected whether life originated abiogenetically, whether it was planted by aliens, whether it rained down from space, whether God created it or whether this is all a big dream. The overal picture that leads to the idea of evolution (how the variety of life came about) remains the same regardless. Please calm down and think a minute about this before disagreeing.

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	Message 9 by Cedre, posted 02-03-2009 8:04 AM		Cedre has not replied

Annafan

Member (Idle past 4597 days)

Posts: 418

From: Belgium

Joined: 08-08-2005

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Message 26 of 48 (497411)
02-04-2009 4:55 AM

Reply to: Message 23 by Cedre
02-04-2009 4:10 AM

Re: responding to Dr adequate

Hi again Cedre

Cedre writes:

No Dr adequate the point is you need to take one of their articles and debunk it word for word, if you can do that in a winning manner, I might display some respect for evolution and I might even make the cross over into your camp,

That is nice to hear! Somebody who is willing to let the evidence decide. Those kind of people are always welcome at EvC.

Dr adequate will probably not take this challenge in this thread (totally off-topic), and it's only natural that his first suggestion will be to check out some of the on-topic threads about these issues. Because, and it is a bit surprising that you seemed to have missed this thus far, there is an enormous wealth of supporting evidence available out there. You might want to check out not only AiG, but also the other side before jumping to conclusions. Not more than fair, not?

Cedre writes:

if evolution is a reality, hey man! then anything is possible in this world.

You got that backwards. If evolution is true, then certainly NOT everything is possible. And that is one way how we can test the theory: if we observe something that is definitely impossible if evolution were true, then there is a problem for the theory. Thus far, after 150 years of observation, no serious problems have been observed for the core of the theory.

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	Message 23 by Cedre, posted 02-04-2009 4:10 AM		Cedre has not replied

Annafan

Member (Idle past 4597 days)

Posts: 418

From: Belgium

Joined: 08-08-2005

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Message 28 of 48 (497413)
02-04-2009 5:02 AM

Reply to: Message 25 by Cedre
02-04-2009 4:41 AM

Re: Hunted

Cedre writes:

since I introduced this thread I have not had one person say anything meaningful in defense of the arguments I gave for why abiogenesis is twaddle.

Nobody will claim that we have a detailed explanation of abiogenesis. We don't. If you want to hear exactly how it all happened, you won't hear it here or anywhere else. As pointed out before, it's a gap that has not been filled in yet, and thus far you'll only get a series of more or less plausible candidates for mechanisms as an answer.

But the REAL question remains: where does it get you once people have "admitted" that? The general impression is that you want to chalk it up as a score against evolution, yet that's missing the point entirely. You are simply fighting the wrong battle, and refusing to see it.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 25 by Cedre, posted 02-04-2009 4:41 AM		Cedre has replied

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	Message 33 by Cedre, posted 02-04-2009 5:34 AM		Annafan has not replied

Annafan

Member (Idle past 4597 days)

Posts: 418

From: Belgium

Joined: 08-08-2005

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Message 38 of 48 (497428)
02-04-2009 5:56 AM

Reply to: Message 35 by Dr Adequate
02-04-2009 5:38 AM

Re: Hunted

Cedre writes:

Perhaps Mr Hunter

The name's "Annafan" this time ;-)

dr adequate writes:

cedre writes:

... you do not realise just how huge a bone of contention not being able to explain how life originated for evolution is, if truth be told, it is a huge prickly thorn embedded out of reach in the side of evolution and no amount of abiobabble surgery will get rid of it.Let me explain why, Number one life as said by evolutionist has come about from non living mattr via four physical and chemical process aided by the(blind)force of natural selection and transforming abilities of mutations. First the emergence of dead organic matter like say nucleotides. Second the joining of the above-named monomers and others to form nucleic acids and other molecules such as amino acids. Third the arranging of these molecules into "protobionts" membrane-bound droplets with internal conditions differen't from that of their surroundings (So what my house has got conditions different from that of my yard, we keep it warm in winter and cool in summer but it doesn't mean its going to come to life someday or spontaneaosly give rise to a living cell). Then finally origin of self-replicating molecules that ushered in the age of replication. As easy as that. Hardly this sounds good on paper but what is its relevance to real world.

No amount of saying this makes it true.

The theory of evolution stands whether the first life was produced in accordance with the laws of nature or by God doing magic.

How hard can it be to understand this? Yet many people who seem to be able to use lots of big intimidating words like "nucleotides", "protobionts", "transforming", "molecules" and others, nevertheless don't seem to have the necessary intellectual capacity. No, something else must be going on here...

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	Message 35 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-04-2009 5:38 AM		Dr Adequate has not replied

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