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Author Topic:   Who & what are the demons ?
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 76 of 349 (496280)
01-27-2009 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Otto Tellick
01-25-2009 10:02 PM


Re: added "as recorded in the Bible"
One more point, expanding on that last paragraph: when you profess your own personal belief in and relationship with God, this does not, by itself, establish any proof that others have the same belief or relationship. But if you relate your personal beliefs to specific behaviors/opinions with respect to things in the world around you, such that others can tell whether their behaviors/opinions on those things match or differ, then you have a basis for saying whether your beliefs are shared by others, or to what extent they are not shared.
I have been walking, talking and fellowshipping with Christians for over 50 years. Do we agree on all points of beliefs, and what we have experienced in our relationship with God? No we don't! The main reason we don't is because we are all at different levels of maturity in our walk with the Lord. The main thing we all agree on as Christians is that Jesus is Lord, and the way we honor Him as Lord is to "first" enter into the truth of Acts 2:38. Then you can be saved to the uttermost (Heb 7:25), if you desire to do so.
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Otto Tellick, posted 01-25-2009 10:02 PM Otto Tellick has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Coragyps, posted 01-27-2009 2:24 PM John 10:10 has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 77 of 349 (496299)
01-27-2009 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by John 10:10
01-27-2009 12:07 PM


Re: added "as recorded in the Bible"
As long as you're still around, 10:10 - do demons dink with the chemical balance of the "possessed's" brain, or not? Do antipsychotics like clozapine chase off lesser demons and leave only the really studly ones bothering prople?

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by John 10:10, posted 01-27-2009 12:07 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by John 10:10, posted 01-28-2009 12:11 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 78 of 349 (496467)
01-28-2009 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Coragyps
01-27-2009 2:24 PM


Re: added "as recorded in the Bible"
As long as you're still around, 10:10 - do demons dink with the chemical balance of the "possessed's" brain, or not? Do antipsychotics like clozapine chase off lesser demons and leave only the really studly ones bothering prople?
Read my lips! When you've tried all the meds and therapy known to man and nothing has worked, then consider that maybe something else (demons) could be causing a person not to be in their right mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Coragyps, posted 01-27-2009 2:24 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-28-2009 1:20 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 82 by caldron68, posted 02-01-2009 10:23 PM John 10:10 has replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 79 of 349 (496498)
01-28-2009 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by John 10:10
01-28-2009 12:11 PM


Re: added "as recorded in the Bible"
Read my lips! When you've tried all the meds and therapy known to man and nothing has worked, then consider that maybe something else (demons) could be causing a person not to be in their right mind.
I think we are making progress. John 10:10 said MAYBE!
Maybe science and medicine will eventually make the concept of demon possession to become a non sequitur.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by John 10:10, posted 01-28-2009 12:11 PM John 10:10 has replied

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 Message 80 by John 10:10, posted 01-31-2009 4:15 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 80 of 349 (496930)
01-31-2009 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by DevilsAdvocate
01-28-2009 1:20 PM


Re: added "as recorded in the Bible"
Maybe science and medicine will eventually make the concept of demon possession to become a non sequitur.
Until science and medicine solves all of life's problems and creates (no pun intented) a perfect world for us to live in, why not consider (no maybe) there's a spiritual world that you know nothing about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-28-2009 1:20 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

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 Message 81 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-31-2009 6:16 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 81 of 349 (496968)
01-31-2009 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by John 10:10
01-31-2009 4:15 PM


Re: added "as recorded in the Bible"
Until science and medicine solves all of life's problems and creates (no pun intented) a perfect world for us to live in, why not consider (no maybe) there's a spiritual world that you know nothing about.
Until you can provide some sort of scientific and medical verification of the succesful practice exorcism during a controled (preferebly double blind or at least single blind) experiment, which is the standard in field of psychiatry and drug studies, then the practice of exorcism is relegated to the same realm of pseudoscience as quack, snake oil medicines and the fake, faith healings of the evangelicals i.e Benny Hinn and Peter Popov.
BTW, a dubious story of an exorcism written by a psychiatrist, who himself is a member of a religiously biased board in the pay of the Roman Catholic Church, and published in newspapers and religious journals published by the Roman Catholic Church vice an unbiased peer review medical journal is not convincing and fails the test as being credible.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

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 Message 80 by John 10:10, posted 01-31-2009 4:15 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
caldron68
Member (Idle past 3841 days)
Posts: 79
From: USA
Joined: 08-26-2007


Message 82 of 349 (497145)
02-01-2009 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by John 10:10
01-28-2009 12:11 PM


Re: added "as recorded in the Bible"
John 10:10 writes:
Read my lips! When you've tried all the meds and therapy known to man and nothing has worked, then consider that maybe something else (demons) could be causing a person not to be in their right mind.
So if demons (Satan) can influence our lives, then the deck really is stacked against us, isn't it John.
I made this same statement in another thread and all three of you (Jaywill, ICANT and you) all chimed in to say that "NO", demons (Satan) cannot directly influence our lives. Are you changing your position on this now?
Cheers,
--Caldron68

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by John 10:10, posted 01-28-2009 12:11 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2009 11:36 PM caldron68 has not replied
 Message 84 by John 10:10, posted 02-03-2009 2:32 PM caldron68 has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 83 of 349 (497153)
02-01-2009 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by caldron68
02-01-2009 10:23 PM


Re: added "as recorded in the Bible"
caldron68 writes:
I made this same statement in another thread and all three of you (Jaywill, ICANT and you) all chimed in to say that "NO", demons (Satan) cannot directly influence our lives. Are you changing your position on this now?
Where did I say that demons and Satan cannot directly influence your life?
Reference please.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by caldron68, posted 02-01-2009 10:23 PM caldron68 has not replied

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 84 of 349 (497329)
02-03-2009 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by caldron68
02-01-2009 10:23 PM


Re: added "as recorded in the Bible"
So if demons (Satan) can influence our lives, then the deck really is stacked against us, isn't it John.
I made this same statement in another thread and all three of you (Jaywill, ICANT and you) all chimed in to say that "NO", demons (Satan) cannot directly influence our lives. Are you changing your position on this now?
Show me where I made such a statement? I happen to believe just the opposite, as is explained in 2 Cor 4,
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Yes, the deck is stacked against you until you are willing to do the work that Jesus declared in John 6:28-29. Even then Christians can be influenced by demons if we are not willing to resist these demons and submit to God (James 4:7).
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by caldron68, posted 02-01-2009 10:23 PM caldron68 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Nighttrain, posted 02-05-2009 1:34 AM John 10:10 has replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 85 of 349 (497610)
02-05-2009 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by John 10:10
02-03-2009 2:32 PM


Re: added "as recorded in the Bible"
Which tome are you pulling all these quotations from, Ten:Ten? Surely not the Rubber Bible? Y`know. the one that s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-s to accommodate all 36,000 Christian groups? Hang on, another two just started up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by John 10:10, posted 02-03-2009 2:32 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by John 10:10, posted 02-05-2009 9:21 AM Nighttrain has replied

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 86 of 349 (497637)
02-05-2009 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Nighttrain
02-05-2009 1:34 AM


Re: added "as recorded in the Bible"
Which tome are you pulling all these quotations from, Ten:Ten? Surely not the Rubber Bible? Y`know. the one that s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-s to accommodate all 36,000 Christian groups? Hang on, another two just started up.
I've given you chapter and verse. Go to any KJV or NAS Bible and read it for yourself. Rarely do unbelievers address the message that Christ gives to those who honor Him as Lord. Instead, we get replys such as yours.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Nighttrain, posted 02-05-2009 1:34 AM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by AdminNosy, posted 02-05-2009 10:20 AM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 90 by Nighttrain, posted 02-05-2009 8:39 PM John 10:10 has replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 87 of 349 (497642)
02-05-2009 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by John 10:10
02-05-2009 9:21 AM


Quotations
It is very helpful, John 10:10, when referring to Biblical quotations to actually copy the lines into your post. It saves your readers a lot of time and makes it difficult for them to disagree with you.
(this, in your case, has n o t h i n g to do with the fact that some people have used Biblical quotations to make a point that say n o t h i n g at all about the point at hand; but that happens fairly often).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by John 10:10, posted 02-05-2009 9:21 AM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by John 10:10, posted 02-05-2009 11:17 AM AdminNosy has replied

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 88 of 349 (497650)
02-05-2009 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by AdminNosy
02-05-2009 10:20 AM


Re: Quotations
If you will read post 84, you will see that I did, and that these verses spoke directly to the question posed to me.
It's not difficult for unbelievers to disagree with anything the Bible says because they don't believe the events talked about really happened, nor do they believe the words the Lord Jesus spoke as recorded in the Bible are His actual words and are true, nor do they believe the Lord gives/manifests to His children the promises He made, nor do they believe the writers of the Bible wrote the words of the Bible as the Spirit of God imspired them.
It's probably best for unbelievers to simply say, "I reject the Bible as having any truth whatsoever for me," and get on with their faith of unbelief, whatever unbelief faith they choose.
For those who are able to hear and receive the Gospel of Christ, these verses in Romans 10 speaks to them,
13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"
16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"
17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by AdminNosy, posted 02-05-2009 10:20 AM AdminNosy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by AdminNosy, posted 02-05-2009 1:55 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 89 of 349 (497676)
02-05-2009 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by John 10:10
02-05-2009 11:17 AM


Re: Quotations
Sorry, you are correct, you did give the actual quotations. I was mislead a bit because they seem to have nothing to do with demons. I'm not involved with the discussions so I'll let others ask about that.
Anyway, keep up the use of the full quotations as you have done. Thank you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by John 10:10, posted 02-05-2009 11:17 AM John 10:10 has not replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 90 of 349 (497732)
02-05-2009 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by John 10:10
02-05-2009 9:21 AM


Re: added "as recorded in the Bible"
I've given you chapter and verse. Go to any KJV or NAS Bible and read it for yourself. Rarely do unbelievers address the message that Christ gives to those who honor Him as Lord. Instead, we get replys such as yours.
Them`s the breaks, sonny boy.
I thought the KJV was compiled by a committee from dodgy manuscripts. And revised ten times. Can`t see the connection from there to Jesus.
While the NAS, surprise, surprise, was compiled from 'newer manuscripts'. Does that mean the older were wrong? Still no connection to the autographs.
How about something based on Jerome?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by John 10:10, posted 02-05-2009 9:21 AM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by John 10:10, posted 02-12-2009 8:22 AM Nighttrain has replied

  
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