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Author Topic:   Faith and belief - The Almighty God revealed through his grandness
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3644 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 16 of 224 (497470)
02-04-2009 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Cedre
02-04-2009 9:05 AM


But I'll egg you on to put away such infantile reasoning and get serious with life
But that's exactly what I have done I was a born-again Christian for 22 years, and finally I have put away that infantile reasoning.

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Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 456 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 17 of 224 (497474)
02-04-2009 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Cedre
02-04-2009 9:05 AM


However say you lived your life exclusively of God and die only to confront a God who penalises sinners, you'll have a lot to be sorrowful for. Give this thought your earnest consideration.
Oh good. Pascal's wager.
"Nice place you got here. Be a shame if something happened to it."
I like it how an aspiring young "good fella" (or should that be "God fella") skips all the extraneous small talk and gets right to the point.
Here, enjoy a Danish. The envelope will be by the till tomorrow. Word to the wise though, I hear the mob from back east is moving into the neighborhood. You might want to be careful who's insurance policies you're selling, know what I mean, kid?
...listen to what your gut is telling you, I'm sure if you only cared to listen closely to it you'd hear it telling you to succumb to God and his way of righteousness.
Yes, I'm sure if everyone just thought about it they'd think like you. Gee, why hasn't someone brought up these brilliant and persuasive arguments before!
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Capt.

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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 18 of 224 (497484)
02-04-2009 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Cedre
02-04-2009 7:56 AM


The ultimate Paradox
More to the point every logical person has reasoned that the unviverse has to have had a begining this is where big bang cosmolgy hails from.
I disagree having a beginning is just as illogical as having no beginning. What happened 1 nanosecond before the big Bang or for that matter 1 million years before? If the Big Bang was not the beginning then what was if anything? Can time have a beginning if so the same question What happened 1 nanosecond before time? Total paradox: the beginning = no beginning. Time is eternal yet finite? Illogical if it is, illogical if it isn't.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 224 (497485)
02-04-2009 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Cedre
02-04-2009 9:05 AM


I really don't know if I should respond to what you've just said, its not worth debating as far as I'm concerned. But I'll egg you on to put away such infantile reasoning and get serious with life,
Is this the love of god that you are revealing?
From the OP:
quote:
In this thread my only hope and objective is to reveal the love of God through his grand ways.
PHAIL

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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 20 of 224 (497502)
02-04-2009 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Cedre
02-04-2009 9:05 AM


Hi Cedre,
quote:
I think that you should give God a real serious thought.
Time and time again I see this kind of reasoning from theists, mostly fundamentalists of one stripe or another.
Exactly what makes you assume that people who disagree with you have not given God serious thought? I know I have. Cavediver clearly has as well. Indeed, most everyone here has given it serious thought, theists, atheists, deists, whatever. That is pretty much a prerequisite for joining a discussion board like this. Those who haven't given the matter any serious attention are very unlikely to register here. They are simply uninterested.
Just because a person does not come to the same conclusion as you, does not mean that they have not considered the matter seriously and to be honest, such statements come across as pretty arrogant.
As for your signature, well... The bill for the irony-meter you just blew up is in the mail.
Mutate and Survive

"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 21 of 224 (497505)
02-04-2009 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Cedre
02-04-2009 7:20 AM


Prophesies? Not
If you knew anything about scholarship you would see that your supposed prophecies are in no way prophecies. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and would like you to provide some of this prophetic wisdom from the bible. Please provide some specific prophecies.
This could be interesting.

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Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 22 of 224 (497516)
02-04-2009 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Cedre
02-04-2009 3:19 AM


In this thread my only hope and objective is to reveal the love of God through his grand ways. By the time this thread has lived up to its goal all will be in awe of his grandeur and nobility but most importantly his LOVE for humanity. Yet be warned this is not inherently meant to be a scientific debate though some elements of science may crop up in the discussions from time to time, but of course with the sole purpose of illuminating God's grandness. This is chiefly a theological debate but everyone's welcome to participate; be that as it may, not that I discourage opposition viewpoints I will encourage curious folks to spend less time finding fault and more time reading about the greatness of God as it unfolds on their screens and asking questions where they fail to understand or beg to differ. I also call upon fellow believers to aid me in this quest, my goal is to make this as open-ended as can be, so please dont shy away from making known your knowledge of God, God is immense and I could never single-handedly be able to unfold him.
O Lord, our Lord, whose glory is higher than the heavens, how noble is your name in all the earth! When I see your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have put in their places. What is man, that you keep him in mind? the son of man, that you take him into account? (Psalm 8:1,3,4)
Indeed what am I that you bother to care about me, you are so far out of my reach yet just close enough to satisfy my deepest needs. To start this debate I would like to hear some personal viewpoints about God's greatness, please start posting.
The entirety of your opening post is a gigantic appeal to incredulity. You are amazed at the wonders of the Universe around you, and humbled by your relatively insignificant place in it...ergo God.
This does not follow. Your personal incredulity has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the existence of a deity. Your reasoning is a logical fallacy.
It's perfectly normal and reasonable to be amazed by the Universe around us. It's complex, and the more we learn, the more we discover that we've only begun to uncover the way the Universe works. Looking at pictures from Hubble often fills me with a sense of awe - but that sense of awe is not evidence of anything. It's a subjective, emotional response, and as such cannot provide evidence for a deity any more than anger provides evidence that someone assaulted me.

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Replies to this message:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 23 of 224 (497562)
02-04-2009 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Cedre
02-04-2009 3:19 AM


Hey Cedre, I have a question, what's this thread about, Christianity...?
Are you just using the forum to preach or do you have anything worth presenting as evidence for "the love of God through his grand ways"...?
From the quote that moose provided from the other thread you are basically saying, "look at nature, there it is, Gods love". Is that what you are trying to say...?
By the time this thread has lived up to its goal all will be in awe of his grandeur and nobility but most importantly his LOVE for humanity.
So you're saying this forum and this thread will achieve what churches, pastuers, preist and our parents have failed to achieve...?
Yet be warned this is not inherently meant to be a scientific debate though some elements of science may crop up in the discussions from time to time
Let me guess, you'll accept only what you say as true science but reject any opposing view point.
This is chiefly a theological debate but everyone's welcome to participate; be that as it may, not that I discourage opposition viewpoints I will encourage curious folks to spend less time finding fault and more time reading about the greatness of God as it unfolds on their screens and asking questions where they fail to understand or beg to differ.
This is contradicting, do you want a debate or do you want people who agree with you who have curious questions about your beliefs...?
To start this debate I would like to hear some personal viewpoints about God's greatness, please start posting.
This makes no sense. "Lets start a debate by everyone telling me how they agree with me".
I predict this thread fails miserably at achieving what you feel it's going to reveal. You are not saying anything that pastuers, preists or any other religious person has exhasted themselves saying already. Hope you got something to show Gods grand love other than "look, lightning, isn't it magical, wow God is love".
- Oni

"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 24 of 224 (497753)
02-06-2009 2:44 AM


By understanding that God operates outside of not only time but also space as we know it (the universe), already begin to give understanding of just how great a god he is.
For some, having no beginning is indeed a hard pill to swallow, because of our daily experiences that inform us that something occupying a certain region of space at any time started its occupation at a given time in the past and will eventually cease to occupy that very space as it is ultimately moved or destroyed. Something that has an end should have a beginning because that is just the way it goes.
It would be highly inane reasoning to resolve that something which is going to ultimately disintegrate before that could have had an eternal existence, why didn't it cease to exist a long time ago, why only start now? Reasoning that having a beginning is just as illogical as having no beginning especially when talking about things we know will someday become flat is nonsense as far as logic goes. Therefore something with an end must have had a point of conception in time.
Yet God is not deterred by time and has no beginning as invoked already a few times in this thread, because a beginning implies slavery to time. Thus it is logical to decribe God as being eternal, or as being everlasting. Yet even this kind of language envokes a sense of endless time, nevertheless it's the best one can do at describing the timeles nature of God.
Now speaking of the universe its end according to some already loom on the horizon, others suggest that in far future the glow of the cosmos will evetually fade until it is cold and dark, and still others foresee the end differently, that is with the expansion of the universe slowing to a halt, reversing direction toward an inescapable apocalyptic Big Crunch, either way all things as we know it will end.
God says in Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away, he further says in Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. So he will be there when everything as we know it come to an end. After that what is left is God his beloved children and eternity sort of, or rather a timeless period that just goes on and on and on, without day or night.
The scary part is what about the godless, what is their role in eternity, well I really needn't say anything here, everyone has heard what the fate of disbelievers is the lake of fire, as said here Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. and, Rev 20:15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. In other words the lake of fire (hell) is timeless punishment. Grim ins't it.
God knew all along about this hellish punishment that is why he performed the greatest single act ever, much greater even than the creation. The incarnation of CHRIST (GOD) Joh 1:14 And the Word (God) became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth. God took the greatest stoop ever, abondoning his glorious nature and assuming the flesh of a lowly servant, who was and still is hated by the world despised by humanity, mocked , and eventually killed. He did it just for us an undeserving race. Why? Becase God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life, (John 3:16).
The above is God's love revealed, he is great much much greater than us in nature and state yet he loves us unconditionally, in fact the bible says that he is love, not only does he give love, but that is what he is. Some may try to deny God's love by alluding to the existence of hell, while forgetting the chances after chances that God has given them to repent, to turn away from sin, they forget about his long-suffering. Maybe it needs a bit of clarifying. God hates evil, he is a Holy God, he cannot suffer evil gladly, he despises it, Pro 8:13 The fear of Jehovah is to hate evil: Pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, And the perverse mouth, do I hate. he says. O that he pines he could just wipe it out, and evil doers along with it, yet his very nature that is love hampers him from acting out so mercilesly. His love keeps him from just destroyng the very thing he hates with every fibre of his being. So bearing the above-said in mind determine your age, some of you might reply 18, 25, 35, still others of you might reply 54, 67, 87. God has been putting up with you and your sinful ways for all this years, it is chiefly by his sustaining grace that we are living, he withold the full affects of death disease and pain from us, he regulates the destructive force of entropy. Any way he in addtion came to die for a sinning race that there might be a way of escape out of a timeless punishment in the lake of fire. And God is by no way unjust he has said in his word that the world will not end until all have heard of his Son and the gift of forgiveness and eternal life.
So all in all he endures our sin, puts up with it until someday we decide to give him the light of day. Waking up every morning surving over to another day, is a show of God's long-sufferance for us and our sinful ways. His lofty position above us, above space, and above all creation and his love for us in the face of our position as unworthy recipients of that love, this is a glimpse of God's love revealed through his grandness.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
Edited by Cedre, : correction
Edited by Cedre, : correction
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

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Vacate
Member (Idle past 4601 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 25 of 224 (497757)
02-06-2009 3:20 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Cedre
02-06-2009 2:44 AM


Please break that up a bit! One huge paragraph makes it very hard to read and likely will not be read by most people.

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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 26 of 224 (497762)
02-06-2009 4:28 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Cedre
02-06-2009 2:44 AM


meh. what's new about your preaching?
You certainly don't achieve your aim:
By understanding that God operates outside of not only time but also space as we know it (the universe), already begin to give understanding of just how great a god he is.
We've had several "preachers" come through EvC. Not one has demonstrated a serious case for believing in god. You're no different.

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Replies to this message:
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 27 of 224 (497763)
02-06-2009 4:45 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by kuresu
02-06-2009 4:28 AM


re: kuresu
My argument is a powerful one considering that I drew from chiefly a theological standpoint, I drew from very little science in making my point, but make a point I did. Whether you want to deny it nevertheless I showed God's love for humanity, but I also explained what it means to die never reaching the point of accepting God, and how God interposed just on time to safe the human race.

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Replies to this message:
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 28 of 224 (497764)
02-06-2009 4:51 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Cedre
02-06-2009 2:44 AM


While it's a very nice post, this still doesn't adress the issue I raised in the very beginning of this thread. How do we determine that it is indeed YOUR god that is responsible for all this, instead of say, odin? Or the flying spaghetti monster for that matter?

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 29 of 224 (497766)
02-06-2009 5:06 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Cedre
02-06-2009 4:45 AM


re: kuresu
Even theologically your argument is not strong. Your argument was that god's greatness can be understood when we figure out how he's outside of time. Instead, you show God's greatness through his willingness to sacrifice his son so that we won't end up in hell. Disconnect, much?
Your theological proof is weak, not even on par with Aquinas or any of the church fathers (I'll give you this: at least you aren't rob, yet). As I said earlier, nothing new here. That you think this is an incredible argument is sad, really.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 30 of 224 (497767)
02-06-2009 5:11 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Cedre
02-06-2009 4:45 AM


re: kuresu
quote:
Whether you want to deny it nevertheless I showed God's love for humanity, but I also explained what it means to die never reaching the point of accepting God, and how God interposed just on time to safe the human race.
No, you did not show any such thing.
Even if you assume that the "problem" is real you have not explained why it exists or why God could not manage a better solution.
Indeed it is implicit in your argument that God is incapable of preventing the problem, incapable of providing a good solution and incapable of managing even the poor solution you claim that he has provided without undergoing extreme pain and suffering.
That sounds somewhat less than "almighty".

This message is a reply to:
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