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Author Topic:   Faith and belief - The Almighty God revealed through his grandness
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 31 of 224 (497768)
02-06-2009 5:12 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Theodoric
02-04-2009 12:43 PM


Re: Prophesies? Not
Theodoric writes:
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and would like you to provide some of this prophetic wisdom from the bible. Please provide some specific prophecies.
The destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon
“Then Isaiah said to Hezekiah, ”Hear the word of the LORD of Hosts: A time is coming when everything in your palace, which your ancestors have stored up to this day, will be carried off to Babylon; nothing will beleft behind.’””Isaiah 39:5,6, prophesied in732B.C.E.
Jeremiah the prophet proclaimed: “I am going to ... bring them [the Babylonians] against this land and its inhabitants ... This whole land shall be a desolate ruin. And those nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.””Jeremiah 25:9,11, prophesied in625B.C.E.
Fulfillment in 607B.C.E. (586B.C.E. according to most secular chronologies): Babylon destroyed Jerusalem after a year and a half siege. The city and temple were razed, and the Jews themselves were carried off to Babylon.
They were release in 537B.C.E. by Cyrus the Great, who conquered Babylon,
Isaiah 44:24-28 mentions Cyrus by name. It was written 200 years before cyrus was even born.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Theodoric, posted 02-04-2009 12:43 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Cedre, posted 02-06-2009 5:19 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 216 by Theodoric, posted 02-09-2009 11:47 AM Peg has not replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 32 of 224 (497769)
02-06-2009 5:19 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Peg
02-06-2009 5:12 AM


Re: Peg
Dear Peg this is the kind of contribution I'm talking about. do keep on contributing positively but please feel free to oppose as you wish aswell. Invite other christians to this thread, this is our chance to show the Almighty God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Peg, posted 02-06-2009 5:12 AM Peg has not replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 33 of 224 (497771)
02-06-2009 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Rahvin
02-04-2009 1:43 PM


Ravin, its not really incredulity and the universe has every bearing on the existence of a diety
an early German astronomer of the 16th/17th centuries by the name of Johannes Kepler was himself motivated by his examination of the planetary movements to be a believer in a Creator, the more he studied the movements and structure of the planets, the stronger his faith became.
Newton was one of the greatest scientific minds and he himself believed in a creator
so, to marvel at the universe is natural...its what makes every intelligent person conclude that there is an intelligent creator behind it

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Rahvin, posted 02-04-2009 1:43 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Huntard, posted 02-06-2009 5:41 AM Peg has replied
 Message 37 by Vacate, posted 02-06-2009 5:43 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 39 by kuresu, posted 02-06-2009 5:49 AM Peg has replied
 Message 41 by Granny Magda, posted 02-06-2009 5:52 AM Peg has replied
 Message 44 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-06-2009 5:59 AM Peg has replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 34 of 224 (497772)
02-06-2009 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by kuresu
02-06-2009 5:06 AM


re: kuresu
I'm not here to out-distance any theologian kuresu, each one contributed in his or her own way. However my argument is clear-cut and compelling in its own right. And to clear up one thing, I intended to show how much great God is compared to his creation, with my time argument, yet how he would rather adopt flesh and become a man and suffer at the hands of his creation in order to give them a way out of an ineluctable doom instead of just going ahead and wiping us out clean.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by kuresu, posted 02-06-2009 5:06 AM kuresu has not replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 35 of 224 (497774)
02-06-2009 5:40 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Huntard
02-06-2009 4:51 AM


re: huntard
Thanks for that comment by the way. Huntard, yours is a genuine question from the heart however as inconvenient as it may be I sadly cannot address it in this thread, I'm trying to limit the theological scope for this thread to only the Almightiness of God and how it reveals his love. But there is amble information out there concerning your query, and if you look in the correct places i assure you you will find what you're looking for.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Huntard, posted 02-06-2009 4:51 AM Huntard has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2294 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 36 of 224 (497775)
02-06-2009 5:41 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Peg
02-06-2009 5:28 AM


Peg writes:
its what makes every intelligent person conclude that there is an intelligent creator behind it
Are you saying anyone who doesn't believe in an intelligent creator can not be intelligent?

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Peg, posted 02-06-2009 5:28 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
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Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 37 of 224 (497776)
02-06-2009 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Peg
02-06-2009 5:28 AM


so, to marvel at the universe is natural...its what makes every intelligent person conclude that there is an intelligent creator behind it
And alternatively all who marvel at the universe and do not conclue a creator behind it are all idiots. By what do you judge intelligence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Peg, posted 02-06-2009 5:28 AM Peg has not replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 38 of 224 (497778)
02-06-2009 5:46 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by kuresu
02-06-2009 4:28 AM


hi kuresu
kuresu writes:
We've had several "preachers" come through EvC. Not one has demonstrated a serious case for believing in god.
thats a very good point you make.
many people doubt the existence of God due to the inability of believers to explain convincingly their convictions.
To be convinced of the existence of a being we cannot see, our belief must be based on other things observed and on our accumulated personal experience.
There is the law of cause and effect. Reasoning on the existing “effect,” creation, makes it evident that there must be some “cause” behind it.
And what about life itself? Have you ever known life to come from any source other than existing life?
then there is the inborn sense of right and wrong in all humans, there is a universality of right and wrong conduct no matter where we live or which nation we are born into...In fact, sophisticated civilized society in our own 20th century used the law of conscience to convict legally certain Nazi war criminals at Nuremberg.
Do you know of any laws that did not require a law maker?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by kuresu, posted 02-06-2009 4:28 AM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by kuresu, posted 02-06-2009 6:05 AM Peg has replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2512 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 39 of 224 (497779)
02-06-2009 5:49 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Peg
02-06-2009 5:28 AM


so, to marvel at the universe is natural...its what makes every intelligent person conclude that there is an intelligent creator behind it
No, that is an argument from incredulity. "Wow, how impressive, a god must be behind it!" is what all those scientists said.
Isn't it funny how you have to turn to 3-400 year old scientists in order to support your argument for belief in god? Kepler, for instance, was unaware of gravity. Newton was also extremely religious, writing more theology than science. I daresay there's a touch of confirmation bias with him. Also, he argues from the god of gaps when he says "Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done." Of course, we know now how the planets were set in motion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Peg, posted 02-06-2009 5:28 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Peg, posted 02-06-2009 5:59 AM kuresu has not replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 40 of 224 (497780)
02-06-2009 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Huntard
02-06-2009 5:41 AM


im not saying that at all huntard
im saying intelligent people have concluded that there is an intelligent creator behind it

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Huntard, posted 02-06-2009 5:41 AM Huntard has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 41 of 224 (497781)
02-06-2009 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Peg
02-06-2009 5:28 AM


Appeals to authority eh?
quote:
Newton was one of the greatest scientific minds and he himself believed in a creator
Newton also believed in alchemy, the Philosopher's Stone, the Elixir of Life, and the city of Atlantis. He is not thought not have believed in the Trinity and he was a practising homosexual.
Are you now going to start pursuing the transmutation of lead into gold, just because Isaac Newton believed in it?
quote:
so, to marvel at the universe is natural...its what makes every intelligent person conclude that there is an intelligent creator behind it
If you're going to call Rahvin stupid, which he is very clearly not, you could at least spell his name right when you do it. Kind of undermines your argument otherwise...
Mutate and Survive

"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Peg, posted 02-06-2009 5:28 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Peg, posted 02-06-2009 6:01 AM Granny Magda has not replied

Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 42 of 224 (497782)
02-06-2009 5:56 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Peg
02-06-2009 5:51 AM


im saying intelligent people have concluded that there is an intelligent creator behind it
Not completely accurate, you said:
"its what makes every intelligent person conclude"
I suspect huntard was having the same issue that I had. You said all of em conclude...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Peg, posted 02-06-2009 5:51 AM Peg has not replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 43 of 224 (497783)
02-06-2009 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by kuresu
02-06-2009 5:49 AM


those scientists noted how incredibly precise the universe is
its not chaos out there...its orderly. A watch obviously has a cause or maker. A carefully designed timepiece reveals something about the cause. It reveals that it is the product of an orderly mind that has the ability to design.
Yet we are able to set our clocks by the heavenly bodies. Their regularity, also the vibrations of certain atoms on this earth, allow us to adjust our clocks to within very tiny fractions of a second. Would not this superb design in creation also indicate intelligence?
And have you ever known intelligence to exist apart from personality?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by kuresu, posted 02-06-2009 5:49 AM kuresu has not replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3100 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 44 of 224 (497784)
02-06-2009 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Peg
02-06-2009 5:28 AM


Ravin, its not really incredulity and the universe has every bearing on the existence of a diety
an early German astronomer of the 16th/17th centuries by the name of Johannes Kepler was himself motivated by his examination of the planetary movements to be a believer in a Creator, the more he studied the movements and structure of the planets, the stronger his faith became.
Newton was one of the greatest scientific minds and he himself believed in a creator
so, to marvel at the universe is natural...its what makes every intelligent person conclude that there is an intelligent creator behind it
Who cares? Logical fallacy: Appeal to Authority (look it up). Many scientists were religious throughout history. Just because one is an expert in there field in one endeavor i.e. science does not make them a source of undisputed authority in another i.e. religion.
Your argument fails here anyways. There was really no choice at the time but to be a Christian and a "creationist" in light of the mergence of Church and State at the time. If anyone wanted to have any type of significant occupation they had to be a Christian and if they disagreed with the Church than they were in danger of being branded a heritic and killed. BTW, Newton was a mystic and a closet Arian believing the trinity to be a fraud perpetrated by the Catholic Church. He also conducted many occultic studies i.e. alchamy, spiritualism (talking to spirits) and was a member of Rosicrucianism and possible a freemason. Does that fit your description of a modern day Christian?

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Peg, posted 02-06-2009 5:28 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Peg, posted 02-06-2009 6:05 AM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 45 of 224 (497785)
02-06-2009 6:01 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Granny Magda
02-06-2009 5:52 AM


granny magda writes:
If you're going to call Rahvin stupid, which he is very clearly not, you could at least spell his name right when you do it. Kind of undermines your argument otherwise...
there is no argument and im not calling anyone stupid

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Granny Magda, posted 02-06-2009 5:52 AM Granny Magda has not replied

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