|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,742 Year: 3,999/9,624 Month: 870/974 Week: 197/286 Day: 4/109 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Faith and belief - The Almighty God revealed through his grandness | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4955 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Devils Advocate writes: Newton was a mystic and a closet Arian believing the trinity to be a fraud perpetrated by the Catholic Church. He also conducted many occultic studies i.e. alchamy, spiritualism (talking to spirits) and was a member of Rosicrucianism and possible a freemason. Does that fit your description of a modern day Christian? if you and granny magda and huntard go back and look at my initial post, you'll see that i was talking about 2 intelligent men who believed in God and who studied science this is why i said 'intelligent people conclude in an intelligent creator' Newton is not on trial here is he?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kuresu Member (Idle past 2538 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
There is the law of cause and effect. Reasoning on the existing “effect,” creation, makes it evident that there must be some “cause” behind it.
what, this old claptrap? That's all you have, "cause and effect must mean god"? You are well aware that unless you remove god from cause and effect, that god himself must have a cause, right? If you remove god from cause and effect (that is, he needs no cause), how can he effect? Oh yeah, he's magic.
And what about life itself? Have you ever known life to come from any source other than existing life?
Argument from ignorance. Also known as god of the gaps. We know that life came from non-life, since life has not always existed. The question is simply how, and there are numerous hypotheses, some better than others. Newton didn't know how the solar system was created, but that doesn't mean god is the only answer (or even an answer).
then there is the inborn sense of right and wrong in all humans, there is a universality of right and wrong conduct no matter where we live or which nation we are born into
And now you use morality to prove god? Please, don't. It's not even remotely credible anymore. Except perhaps for the ignorant. You do realize that ants have socially acceptable and unacceptable behavior within their colonies, right? I guess god gave them morality, huh? Or perhaps morality is a result of living in society, and moral behavior is that which allows the society to function without great interruption or destruction. This is what I was talking about. All you people have are amateur, ignorant, or perhaps even immature arguments for believing in god.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kuresu Member (Idle past 2538 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
You must have a hard time remembering what you wrote.
Here's your message in full:
quote:http://EvC Forum: Faith and belief - The Almighty God revealed through his grandness -->EvC Forum: Faith and belief - The Almighty God revealed through his grandness bolding mine. You claimed that every intelligent person concludes that there is an "intelligent creator" behind the universe. Conversely, everyone who does not think there is an "intelligent creator" must therefore be stupid (stupid being the opposite of intelligent).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4955 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
you claimed that christians cannot give an explanation of why they believe in a creator
i've just given you 3 and they are not reasonable to you well here is a wakeup call...they are reasonable to me and probably many other people who believe. 1. life does not arise from non living matter2. laws require a law maker 3. the law of cause of effect means something must have been the cause Can any scientist disprove these 3 realities?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4955 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
i will stand by that. Intelligent people do believe in God and hopefully its because, like Kepler and Newton, they have studied and reasoned on the world around them and the realities of that world.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kuresu Member (Idle past 2538 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
you claimed that christians cannot give an explanation of why they believe in a creator
Where did I say that? I have merely said that you, as a general rule, cannot give convincing arguments for believing in god. As to the arguments you find compelling, well, that's fine. You may think they are compelling, but they certainly aren't. This is hardly the thread to hash out the reasons. There are numerous abiogenesis threads, numerous morality threads, and I'm sure there's a thread somewhere on cause and effect. Dig them up.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kuresu Member (Idle past 2538 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
Thank you for calling me stupid. And for calling all other atheists stupid.
Go fuck yourself.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4955 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
kuresu writes: As to the arguments you find compelling, well, that's fine. You may think they are compelling, but they certainly aren't. they are not compelling to you, fair enough... but can you disprove any of those 3 realities???
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vacate Member (Idle past 4626 days) Posts: 565 Joined: |
Intelligent people do believe in God The inevitable question is - what one?
hopefully its because, like Kepler and Newton, they have studied and reasoned on the world around them and the realities of that world. Why then have most scientists, the ones that could be said have studied the world the most, reasoned that there is no god? At the very least one could reason that these non-believers are intelligent. I am sorry for using a fallacy but Einstein, Sagan, Dawkins and many others inevitably spring to mind. (Deist, Atheist, or otherwise)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1515 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
Everyone else except Peg has been able to argue intelligently in this thread thus far, everyone else is creating alot of uncalled for noise by rehashing old and obsolete atheistic arguments that have been debunked by not soley creation scientist but also by laypersons on the streets. That is how weak and wishy-washy the arguments of certain evolution advocates are.
First of all God is outside of his creation laws such as cause and effect do not necessarily have to apply to him, he is God, he brought this laws into being this laws, and like wise Peg said, every law is with a lawmaker, God is the maker of natural laws, he couldn't have had a cause being outside of time as well. Other pathetic arguments that I have come across from such folks as kuresu is the long disproved argument of abiogenesis by Louis Pasteur work, a great scientist. And as kuresu himslef has owned up all scientist have got to work with is a bunch of nonsensical and unsound conjectures as to how the first life may have arisen, in any case mounting evidence is revealing that the early atmosphere actually only consisted of nitrogen and carbon dioxide, yet we now that 96% of living matter consist of carbon, oxgen hydrogen, and nitrogen. And about Newton whatever he may have or have not done, he no less remains as one of the greatest minds to have ever graced the scientific world, and the bottom line is somehow his intelligence and research led him in the direction of God, in fact I'm still in awe of what he said and did. We can't say that much about Darwin, a preacher who failed under the pressures of medicine school, medicine school! He was a philosopher no scientist at all, and is dwarfed greatly by the likes of even Galileo amongst the earliest thinkers. And as far as morality goes it should be a major stumbling block for evolution, why should animals care about each other in a dog-eat-dog world painted by the wordlviews of evolution. Instead of unequal reproductive success we live alongside the crippled sick and disabled (mentally). Evoltuion if it were true should have wiped out this defects a long time ago. Also why do we care about others, why do we love, why are we so against wars, crimes. Morality points to God, he is the author of it. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4955 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Vacate writes: Why then have most scientists, the ones that could be said have studied the world the most, reasoned that there is no god? At the very least one could reason that these non-believers are intelligent. of course they are intelligent and i wasnt trying to imply that they were not, i was simply saying that intelligent people also believe in God. Any person who believes in a creator must by necessity believe that ALL humans are intelligent. When it comes to belief in God, there are only 3 types of people...those who do, those who dont and those who dont care.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1515 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
I applaud you for the tremendous scientific input you have brought into this discussion in support of God. It seems that your arguments were so great it scared off a few of the attackers and even managed to piss off a few more.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4955 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Hi Cedre,
well i wouldn't call it tremendous scientific input lol they are powerful motivators for me anyway...im sure many other believers have reasoned on them too.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vacate Member (Idle past 4626 days) Posts: 565 Joined: |
the long disproved argument of abiogenesis I read the news quite regularly, how did I miss that?
the bottom line is somehow his intelligence and research led him in the direction of God When someone lets their beliefs trump evidence things like that can happen. When the evidence hasn't even been discovered yet its even more likely to happen. Don't fault him for not knowing what we know today, credit him for paving the way.
We can't say that much about Darwin Your right, not much to be said about that guy at all. One word really - biology.
And as far as morality goes it should be a major stumbling block for evolution And yet its not!
Evoltuion if it were true should have wiped out this defects a long time ago Morality does benefit in a society, yes? A benefit is not a defect, right?
Morality points to God, he is the author of it. Says who? Seriously! Who has decided that the morality written about in the bible is correct?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vacate Member (Idle past 4626 days) Posts: 565 Joined: |
of course they are intelligent and i wasnt trying to imply that they were not, i was simply saying that intelligent people also believe in God. Thank you. All previous statements seemed to imply all non-believers are not intelligent. Perhaps that wasn't your intent, I would agree with this statement however.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024