Faith and belief - The Almighty God revealed through his grandness

if you and granny magda and huntard go back and look at my initial post, you'll see that i was talking about 2 intelligent men who believed in God and who studied sciencethis is why i said 'intelligent people conclude in an intelligent creator'Newton is not on trial here is he?

what, this old claptrap? That's all you have, "cause and effect must mean god"?You are well aware that unless you remove god from cause and effect, that god himself must have a cause, right?If you remove god from cause and effect (that is, he needs no cause), how can he effect? Oh yeah, he's magic. Argument from ignorance. Also known as god of the gaps. We know that life came from non-life, since life has not always existed. The question is simply how, and there are numerous hypotheses, some better than others. Newton didn't know how the solar system was created, but that doesn't mean god is the only answer (or even an answer). And now you use morality to prove god? Please, don't. It's not even remotely credible anymore. Except perhaps for the ignorant. You do realize that ants have socially acceptable and unacceptable behavior within their colonies, right? I guess god gave them morality, huh? Or perhaps morality is a result of living in society, and moral behavior is that which allows the society to function without great interruption or destruction.This is what I was talking about. All you people have are amateur, ignorant, or perhaps even immature arguments for believing in god.

You must have a hard time remembering what you wrote.Here's your message in full:

quote:

---

Ravin, its not really incredulity and the universe has every bearing on the existence of a diety

​

an early German astronomer of the 16th/17th centuries by the name of Johannes Kepler was himself motivated by his examination of the planetary movements to be a believer in a Creator, the more he studied the movements and structure of the planets, the stronger his faith became.

​

Newton was one of the greatest scientific minds and he himself believed in a creator

​

so, to marvel at the universe is natural...its what makes every intelligent person conclude that there is an intelligent creator behind it
  —Peg

---

http://EvC Forum: Faith and belief - The Almighty God revealed through his grandness -->EvC Forum: Faith and belief - The Almighty God revealed through his grandness
bolding mine.You claimed that every intelligent person concludes that there is an "intelligent creator" behind the universe. Conversely, everyone who does not think there is an "intelligent creator" must therefore be stupid (stupid being the opposite of intelligent).

you claimed that christians cannot give an explanation of why they believe in a creatori've just given you 3 and they are not reasonable to youwell here is a wakeup call...they are reasonable to me and probably many other people who believe.1. life does not arise from non living matter
2. laws require a law maker
3. the law of cause of effect means something must have been the causeCan any scientist disprove these 3 realities?

i will stand by that. Intelligent people do believe in God and hopefully its because, like Kepler and Newton, they have studied and reasoned on the world around them and the realities of that world.

Where did I say that? I have merely said that you, as a general rule, cannot give convincing arguments for believing in god.As to the arguments you find compelling, well, that's fine. You may think they are compelling, but they certainly aren't. This is hardly the thread to hash out the reasons. There are numerous abiogenesis threads, numerous morality threads, and I'm sure there's a thread somewhere on cause and effect. Dig them up.

Thank you for calling me stupid. And for calling all other atheists stupid.Go fuck yourself.

they are not compelling to you, fair enough...but can you disprove any of those 3 realities???

The inevitable question is - what one? Why then have most scientists, the ones that could be said have studied the world the most, reasoned that there is no god? At the very least one could reason that these non-believers are intelligent. I am sorry for using a fallacy but Einstein, Sagan, Dawkins and many others inevitably spring to mind. (Deist, Atheist, or otherwise)

Everyone else except Peg has been able to argue intelligently in this thread thus far, everyone else is creating alot of uncalled for noise by rehashing old and obsolete atheistic arguments that have been debunked by not soley creation scientist but also by laypersons on the streets. That is how weak and wishy-washy the arguments of certain evolution advocates are.First of all God is outside of his creation laws such as cause and effect do not necessarily have to apply to him, he is God, he brought this laws into being this laws, and like wise Peg said, every law is with a lawmaker, God is the maker of natural laws, he couldn't have had a cause being outside of time as well.Other pathetic arguments that I have come across from such folks as kuresu is the long disproved argument of abiogenesis by Louis Pasteur work, a great scientist. And as kuresu himslef has owned up all scientist have got to work with is a bunch of nonsensical and unsound conjectures as to how the first life may have arisen, in any case mounting evidence is revealing that the early atmosphere actually only consisted of nitrogen and carbon dioxide, yet we now that 96% of living matter consist of carbon, oxgen hydrogen, and nitrogen. And about Newton whatever he may have or have not done, he no less remains as one of the greatest minds to have ever graced the scientific world, and the bottom line is somehow his intelligence and research led him in the direction of God, in fact I'm still in awe of what he said and did.We can't say that much about Darwin, a preacher who failed under the pressures of medicine school, medicine school! He was a philosopher no scientist at all, and is dwarfed greatly by the likes of even Galileo amongst the earliest thinkers.And as far as morality goes it should be a major stumbling block for evolution, why should animals care about each other in a dog-eat-dog world painted by the wordlviews of evolution. Instead of unequal reproductive success we live alongside the crippled sick and disabled (mentally). Evoltuion if it were true should have wiped out this defects a long time ago. Also why do we care about others, why do we love, why are we so against wars, crimes. Morality points to God, he is the author of it.Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

of course they are intelligent and i wasnt trying to imply that they were not, i was simply saying that intelligent people also believe in God.Any person who believes in a creator must by necessity believe that ALL humans are intelligent.When it comes to belief in God, there are only 3 types of people...those who do, those who dont and those who dont care.

I applaud you for the tremendous scientific input you have brought into this discussion in support of God. It seems that your arguments were so great it scared off a few of the attackers and even managed to piss off a few more.

Hi Cedre,well i wouldn't call it tremendous scientific input lolthey are powerful motivators for me anyway...im sure many other believers have reasoned on them too.

I read the news quite regularly, how did I miss that? When someone lets their beliefs trump evidence things like that can happen. When the evidence hasn't even been discovered yet its even more likely to happen. Don't fault him for not knowing what we know today, credit him for paving the way. Your right, not much to be said about that guy at all. One word really - biology. And yet its not! Morality does benefit in a society, yes? A benefit is not a defect, right? Says who? Seriously! Who has decided that the morality written about in the bible is correct?

Thank you. All previous statements seemed to imply all non-believers are not intelligent. Perhaps that wasn't your intent, I would agree with this statement however.