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Author Topic:   Faith and belief - The Almighty God revealed through his grandness
Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 72 of 224 (497831)
02-06-2009 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by PaulK
02-06-2009 8:07 AM


PaulK, what you fail to understand is that God has the power to bring forth life at will (even without living matter), he commands life, the bible says that he is life. Naturally it is impossible to bring forth life from nothing, we know this to be true, as logic would guide us. But God presides over logic, and at times he will act miraculously. The fact that something may seem unnatural for us doesn't imply that it has to be for God aswell, remember natural laws fall short as far as God is concerned. And in his infinite wisdom and almighty power God had no snag creating life.
IF we reason that god is the creator of everything that exist including laws, than in fact the natural laws also have a lawmaker.
And as far as cause and effect is concerned, these principles are a part of our daily experience, and that is how it goes, we have never seen an effect without a cause.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by PaulK, posted 02-06-2009 8:07 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by PaulK, posted 02-06-2009 8:53 AM Cedre has not replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 77 of 224 (497837)
02-06-2009 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Vacate
02-06-2009 8:28 AM


Re: Who decided?
Well I consider the bible to be the ultimate teacher of moral awareness, it teaches pure and unpolluted morality, have you tried reading it. Its paramount message is love. God tells us that the most important command is to love Him with all your heart and mind, and the second most important command that follows is to love others as much as you love yourself. It also teaches that the greatest symbolic representation of love is to lay down your life for a friend. and if you read the ten commandments, there you are bombarded with more do's and dont's, all ethically sound.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Vacate, posted 02-06-2009 8:28 AM Vacate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-06-2009 8:56 AM Cedre has not replied
 Message 82 by Vacate, posted 02-06-2009 9:15 AM Cedre has replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 80 of 224 (497842)
02-06-2009 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Modulous
02-06-2009 8:42 AM


Re: Modulous
What does your gut tell you, do you think its right to kill. Would you mind if I killed your mother and father, would you retain any sorrow in your heart after the deed, or anger toward me. The answer is simple what is moral is commanded by God because it is moral.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Modulous, posted 02-06-2009 8:42 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-06-2009 9:08 AM Cedre has not replied
 Message 83 by Modulous, posted 02-06-2009 9:23 AM Cedre has replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 84 of 224 (497851)
02-06-2009 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Vacate
02-06-2009 9:15 AM


Re: Who decided?
I have not known atleast mainstream christians picking and choosing from the bible they take it just as it is. Though I will say certain things in the bible we may not understand at first sight it doesn't mean that it is wrong or subject to correction, we just need to understand it first. In any case trying to understand the bible from an acedemical point of view isn't the right way to apporach its text, God actually reveals spiritual insights to earnest seekers of the truth. The old testemant and the new testament also differ in certain teaching, what was relevant back there isn't quite relevant today, what is relevant for us today is the text of the new testament first and foremost. It was written for our age. there are answers for this difficult questions out there I'm no expert on theology and I don't claim to have all the answers concerning biblical text but I rely on my faith in God to help me understand the sacret text of the bible. first and foremost, we are encouraged to strive toward Christlikeness, and commiting our lives to daily studies of scripture will help us on that journey, But picking out pieces of scripture with the aim of devasting it, will not help you understand it. You must really read it to understand it, and ask God to unfold it to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Vacate, posted 02-06-2009 9:15 AM Vacate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Vacate, posted 02-06-2009 9:59 AM Cedre has not replied
 Message 91 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-06-2009 11:10 AM Cedre has not replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 85 of 224 (497853)
02-06-2009 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Modulous
02-06-2009 9:23 AM


Re: Modulous
What is your point exactly? God has no choice but to be moral, that way we can depend on him to be always a good God. His very nature has strong ties with morality the bible syas that God is love so it has been with him all along, he doesn't fish it out from another authority, it has always been with him just as his power has.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Modulous, posted 02-06-2009 9:23 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Modulous, posted 02-06-2009 9:44 AM Cedre has not replied
 Message 88 by Huntard, posted 02-06-2009 9:46 AM Cedre has not replied
 Message 92 by onifre, posted 02-06-2009 11:42 AM Cedre has not replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 171 of 224 (498193)
02-09-2009 1:09 AM


Re: Everyone
I'm glad that I have managed to drum up so many people together to talk about God. You see folks whether you're practice is, Bahaism Brahmanism, Buddhism, cultus, occultism or even atheism fact is we're all inspired to talk about God, why because deep-down it bothers all of us. God breathed a piece of himself into our DNA, that is why all peoples, tribes and nations the world around have a form of Godly worship or acknolwdge God in some manner, whether through idol worship, spirit worship, angel worship, or evolution worship. cool My God lives forevermore.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Huntard, posted 02-09-2009 1:44 AM Cedre has replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 172 of 224 (498195)
02-09-2009 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by Peg
02-08-2009 11:52 PM


Re: Peg
Dear Peg I'm glad to see that you hold the fort so well each time whilst I'm away unbending my taut fingers. You know folks chatting is alright and all, but you gotta say no at some point, it's your body's folks let them breathe habitually.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Peg, posted 02-08-2009 11:52 PM Peg has not replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 173 of 224 (498198)
02-09-2009 1:44 AM


Re: Deity of Christ
Dear Peg, I'm glad you're a christian. However I'll have to disagree with your statement that the bible is at odds with the teaching that Jesus is God himself as believed and upheld by the church. This is not an obscure teaching in the bible in fact it is clear-cut and straightforward, and any earnest learner of the word will him/herself soon arrive at the same conclusion. See Joh 1:1; Col 2:9; Joh 10:30; Heb 1:3. The above are just some of the versus that talk about the issue of Christ's divinty.

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Peg, posted 02-09-2009 3:00 AM Cedre has replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 175 of 224 (498200)
02-09-2009 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by Huntard
02-09-2009 1:44 AM


Re: Huntard
You are too huntard, and the fact alone that you inconvenience yourself to return my posts is proof in it self that you're troubled to a degree. Admit it come on.
They may be different God's but that's not my point, my point is that people all over have worshiped some form of god. They look up into space because they feel that there must be something much greater than they somewhere out there. In any case to clear the confusion of the multiple god's the real God gave us the bible, exposing the one and only true God, and as if that wasn't enough he came down in flesh to persuade the world of his aloneness as the only God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Huntard, posted 02-09-2009 1:44 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Huntard, posted 02-09-2009 3:16 AM Cedre has replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 176 of 224 (498201)
02-09-2009 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by Huntard
02-09-2009 1:44 AM


Re: Huntard
You are too huntard, and the fact alone that you inconvenience yourself to return my posts is proof in it self that you're troubled to a degree. Admit it come on.
They may all be different God's but that's not my point, my point is that people all over have worshiped some form of god. They look up into space because they feel that there must be something much greater than they somewhere out there. In any case to clear the confusion of the multiple god's the real God gave us the bible, exposing the one and only true God, and as if that wasn't enough he came down in flesh to persuade the world of his aloneness as the only God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Huntard, posted 02-09-2009 1:44 AM Huntard has not replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 178 of 224 (498204)
02-09-2009 2:46 AM


Re: Clarification
I’ve noticed that in forum discussion like this one or in any other discussion where to worldviews collide; people will often claim that their worldview is the right one at the expense of the other. They do this not because they’re position is favored by the evidence but many times because they are too proud to relinquish their position.
Worldviews are inherently interpretations; they follow from the way we see things. It’s like a crime scene, detectives or forensics will often reach two opposing ends after having analyzed the evidence from the same crime scene. In the end only one will win over the jury’s heart, and often times the jury may allow emotions and feelings to get in the way of their final decision. This is the reason retrials even exist, and it’s possible that someone found guilty the first time will be found innocent the second time around.
Different people interpret evidence differently; the question is not whose interpretation is supported by the majority but whose interpretation does the most justice to the evidence.
The same thing applies at science. Evolutionist and creationist share the same body of evidences; the difference is how they approach that evidence. We (Christians) look at the universe and say, wow look at what God did! And the Evolutionist looks at the same evidence and say, wow look at what Mother Nature did! But who is right.
Let me give an example. An evolution fossilist unearths a strange skeleton and says huh, look it a missing link, whereas a creationist would simply conclude, huh, look it’s a new creature. Which position is more logical, a transition between two individuals or an animal that resembles features present in the two animals because the same God made them all.
So the bottomline is, no one in the EvC debate has better evidence than the other, yet evolution advocates are fond of making statements like, "there is no evidence to support creationism." This statement is in the wrong as we share the same body of evidence, it is our interpretations that differ. The right question to be asked therefore is, whose interpretation best fits the evidence?

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by PaulK, posted 02-09-2009 3:12 AM Cedre has replied
 Message 196 by Modulous, posted 02-09-2009 4:33 AM Cedre has replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 180 of 224 (498208)
02-09-2009 3:00 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by Dawn Bertot
02-09-2009 2:24 AM


Re: Bertot
Interesting reply to modulous. You're evidently well-imformed in the area of apologetics. Keep up the good work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-09-2009 2:24 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 182 of 224 (498210)
02-09-2009 3:12 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by Peg
02-09-2009 3:00 AM


Re: Deity of Christ
In my second last post I've pointed out how feelings, perceptions can get in the way of making one's final decision. The New Encyclopaedia Britannica gives its take on the issue are they wrong i think so, based on what the bible itself teaches, not what the church fathers have said. I have given you versus that strongly suggest the deity of jesus, either he (jesus) is a seperate god next to God or the bible has contradicted itself. Because in other places it talks about the oneness of God Mar 12:29; Rom 3:30; Eph 4:6. And another thing just because the catholic church has said something doesn't make it right, the catholic church is not the ultimate authority of biblical text, remember body of christ is composed of the entire christian population, not just some denominations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Peg, posted 02-09-2009 3:00 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Peg, posted 02-09-2009 4:24 AM Cedre has replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 185 of 224 (498214)
02-09-2009 3:19 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by PaulK
02-09-2009 3:12 AM


Re: Paul K
what parts do creationist ignore, please point out. Creationist do not ignore any evidence they just interpret it differently from the Evolutionist who also interpret the same evidence differently. Again you are trying to claim that your interpretation of the evidence is the right one, bear in mind there are many things in the world that resemble each other but similarity isn't enought to conclude that a set of things had a common ancestor, they may have been the products of the same inventor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by PaulK, posted 02-09-2009 3:12 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by PaulK, posted 02-09-2009 3:30 AM Cedre has replied

Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 187 of 224 (498220)
02-09-2009 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Huntard
02-09-2009 3:16 AM


Re: Huntard
this is what evolutionist do, they dig up two individuals and when they look alike describe them as being part of the same branch of the evoltuionary tree of life. I don't think that is logical reasoning, it's just like I happen upon a fork with one missing prong in a layer of dirt and then in a higher layer of dirt just above that one I discover a fork not missing any of its prongs, shall I then conclude the latter one evolved the the former. Silly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Huntard, posted 02-09-2009 3:16 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Huntard, posted 02-09-2009 3:49 AM Cedre has replied

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