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Author Topic:   Faith and belief - The Almighty God revealed through his grandness
Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 25 of 224 (497757)
02-06-2009 3:20 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Cedre
02-06-2009 2:44 AM


Please break that up a bit! One huge paragraph makes it very hard to read and likely will not be read by most people.

This message is a reply to:
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Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 37 of 224 (497776)
02-06-2009 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Peg
02-06-2009 5:28 AM


so, to marvel at the universe is natural...its what makes every intelligent person conclude that there is an intelligent creator behind it
And alternatively all who marvel at the universe and do not conclue a creator behind it are all idiots. By what do you judge intelligence?

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Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 42 of 224 (497782)
02-06-2009 5:56 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Peg
02-06-2009 5:51 AM


im saying intelligent people have concluded that there is an intelligent creator behind it
Not completely accurate, you said:
"its what makes every intelligent person conclude"
I suspect huntard was having the same issue that I had. You said all of em conclude...

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Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 54 of 224 (497796)
02-06-2009 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Peg
02-06-2009 6:20 AM


Intelligent people do believe in God
The inevitable question is - what one?
hopefully its because, like Kepler and Newton, they have studied and reasoned on the world around them and the realities of that world.
Why then have most scientists, the ones that could be said have studied the world the most, reasoned that there is no god? At the very least one could reason that these non-believers are intelligent. I am sorry for using a fallacy but Einstein, Sagan, Dawkins and many others inevitably spring to mind. (Deist, Atheist, or otherwise)

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 Message 50 by Peg, posted 02-06-2009 6:20 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Peg, posted 02-06-2009 6:51 AM Vacate has replied

Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 59 of 224 (497808)
02-06-2009 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Cedre
02-06-2009 6:48 AM


the long disproved argument of abiogenesis
I read the news quite regularly, how did I miss that?
the bottom line is somehow his intelligence and research led him in the direction of God
When someone lets their beliefs trump evidence things like that can happen. When the evidence hasn't even been discovered yet its even more likely to happen. Don't fault him for not knowing what we know today, credit him for paving the way.
We can't say that much about Darwin
Your right, not much to be said about that guy at all. One word really - biology.
And as far as morality goes it should be a major stumbling block for evolution
And yet its not!
Evoltuion if it were true should have wiped out this defects a long time ago
Morality does benefit in a society, yes? A benefit is not a defect, right?
Morality points to God, he is the author of it.
Says who? Seriously! Who has decided that the morality written about in the bible is correct?

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Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 60 of 224 (497810)
02-06-2009 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Peg
02-06-2009 6:51 AM


of course they are intelligent and i wasnt trying to imply that they were not, i was simply saying that intelligent people also believe in God.
Thank you. All previous statements seemed to imply all non-believers are not intelligent. Perhaps that wasn't your intent, I would agree with this statement however.

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Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 62 of 224 (497812)
02-06-2009 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Peg
02-06-2009 7:12 AM


the question should be, does it work? Is it beneficial?
Oddly enough though, that was not the question.
**ABE**
Too fast on the reply to notice that it was you, Peg, to reply and not Cedre simply avoiding the post!
To answer:
Sometimes it works and is beneficial and sometimes not. I am sure you will have little problem finding a few examples of moral concerns that we choose to ignore in our society today.
Edited by Vacate, : No reason given.

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Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 71 of 224 (497829)
02-06-2009 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Cedre
02-06-2009 8:15 AM


Who decided?
I want you to get a balanced view just as I have, the evidence points more strongly toward the God of the bible.
On that note could you please answer my previous question: Who has decided that the morality written about in the bible is correct?

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 Message 69 by Cedre, posted 02-06-2009 8:15 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Cedre, posted 02-06-2009 8:46 AM Vacate has replied

Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 82 of 224 (497846)
02-06-2009 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Cedre
02-06-2009 8:46 AM


Re: Who decided?
Well I consider the bible to be the ultimate teacher of moral awareness
That much is obvious, as a matter of fact many non-believers of Christianity would consider the bible as a valid source for some moral awareness. My point is we as humans have decided the bible is a valid source of morality; but we as humans have also decided that many of the teachings in the bible are no longer morally accurate in our society. Point of fact there are many things in the bible we consider morally abhorrent. We choose to avoid them, God apparently choose to decree them.
it teaches pure and unpolluted morality
Oh? Whats your stance on slavery? Or stoning your children to death?
God tells us that the most important command is to love Him with all your heart and mind, and the second most important command that follows is to love others as much as you love yourself.
The first is not about morality, the second is the "The Golden Rule", certainly a good way to lead ones life, but we don't need the bible to come to that conclusion. We don't even need religion to come to that conclusion as logic will do just fine.
and if you read the ten commandments, there you are bombarded with more do's and dont's, all ethically sound.
The first four are not even about morality. The next few are just fine but the last is pretty shaky in the morality department, more of a recommendation to relieve stress. Hardly a bombardment of morality.
The reason for my question: Who has decided that the morality written about in the bible is correct?, is that though the bible teaches morality - humanity has decided what is right and wrong, not the bible. You pick and choose what to accept, our society picks and chooses. Though the bible dictates, it is US who decide what is moral.
Why then do you feel its correct to say "Morality points to God, he is the author of it.? He may be the author, as many assert, but He is not the decider of what our society accepts to be right and wrong. We decide and there are plenty of examples where that is obviously the case.

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 Message 77 by Cedre, posted 02-06-2009 8:46 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Cedre, posted 02-06-2009 9:30 AM Vacate has replied

Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 89 of 224 (497859)
02-06-2009 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Cedre
02-06-2009 9:30 AM


Re: Who decided?
Though I will say certain things in the bible we may not understand at first sight it doesn't mean that it is wrong or subject to correction
So the quotes made by DevilsAdvocate in message 79 aren't quite clear enough to understand at first glance? Whats unclear about the quotes exactly?
The old testemant and the new testament also differ in certain teaching, what was relevant back there isn't quite relevant today
And I bet you can guess who decided whats relevant today even though the bible is pretty damn muddy.
I'm no expert on theology and I don't claim to have all the answers concerning biblical text but I rely on my faith in God to help me understand the sacret text of the bible.
So it doesn't teach "pure and unpolluted morality" but you rely on faith to teach it. Those without faith don't use faith to teach their morality yet somehow it closely resembles yours... and differs greatly from what the bible teaches. Yet I assume you disagree that society decides morality?
first and foremost, we are encouraged to strive toward Christlikeness, and commiting our lives to daily studies of scripture will help us on that journey
Name something Jesus taught that we where likely unable to ever come up with ourselves. Did Jesus offer any insight into condom use or stem cell research that would be of any benefit today? Those two issues seem to me to be two major factors in misery and death in this world and I can't help but notice its the fans of Jesus who are the obstacles to progress.
But picking out pieces of scripture with the aim of devastating it, will not help you understand it.
True enough, that's why I have no intention of quoting a mountain of scripture to prove my point. I am confident that you are aware of the same quotes and can recite apologetics all day if pressed. Lets just stick with the basics: you have chosen to ignore certain things from the bible because present day society considers them evil, correct?
You must really read it to understand it, and ask God to unfold it to you.
How do you know I didn't really read it? Have you really read it? Why do you assume that a person has not read something just because he disagrees with it? Or can you tell a person who has really read the bible by his/her ability to cherry pick scripture to make it seem flawless?

This message is a reply to:
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