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Author Topic:   Eternal Life (thanks, but no thanks)
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 15 of 296 (497611)
02-05-2009 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Modulous
02-04-2009 9:33 AM


Re Dear God,
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes:
Dear God,
The gentleman the OP is addressed to wrote you a love letter.
He tells you in Genesis 1:26, 27:
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
You are created in the image of God.
God is everlasting.
Isaiah 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
God is everlasting and since you are in his image then you are everlasting also. You don't have a choice
You are going to last forever somewhere.
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Everlasting life with God if you so choose.
Everlasting contempt with the devil. No choice required.
Modulous writes:
I'm not sure who to believe on those accounts but let us assume that whatever the requirements are that by the time my body has died I have fulfilled them.
The love letter says this:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Everything you need to get to heaven is contained in those three verses.
Modulous writes:
I have a few questions about this immortality, that I think it is vital you answer for me. Failing that, perhaps you can inspire some of your followers who are members here to tell me.
Modulous writes:
1) Do I get a choice?
Sorry Mod as pointed out above you have no choice.
Modulous writes:
For reasons I will explain, the concept of eternal life whichever way it is dressed up fills me with either horror or non-caring. If I had a choice I would not accept this offer. Can I not simply request to be sent into the dark absence of oblivion rather than suffering permanent consciousness? It seems highly immoral to force me to do the thing which I would loathe to do.
No one forces you to do anything It is your choice although limited.
Modulous writes:
Do I grow?
That depends on your choice.
Modulous writes:
In many versions of immortality my personality remains the same for all eternity. What horror! My goals remain the same? Does that mean they are never fulfilled? Or does it mean I never get any new goals? Do I learn anything? If I do learn, gain new goals and so on and so forth - then I surely am growing. The dilemma is this:
The rich man in Luke is given for an example.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
That rich man still wants that little bit of water.
Mod I agree if heaven was as you present it I don't think I would care to go there myself.
But that is not what the New Heaven and the New earth will be like.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
We shall be like HIM.
These are promises to those who have met those requirements you mentioned.
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Jesus went flying through the sky and space. He had appeared in rooms that had locked doors. He had appeared suddenly to people.
He had a glorified body. When He comes we will get a glorified body.
At this time we will have a perfect body, a perfect spirit and all knowledge.
After the Great White Throne Judgment God will wipe away all tears
Then we will have a new heaven (universe) and a new earth.
There will be no more sea only a river that flows from the throne of God to water the land. On each side of that river will be the tree of life, which bares twelve manner of fruits.
This throne shall be in the New Jerusalem, a city of 1500 cubic miles. Whose streets are pure gold. I own a mansion in that city.
You could too.
Time will have ceased as you and I know it and there will remain now.
Since Jesus was 33 1/2 years old at the accession we should be like that. So you don't have to worry about growing old. There will be no sun to count days by as God will be the light as He was in Genesis 1:3.
I will be omnipresent which means I could travel instantly anywhere in that universe I so desired. What a trip that would be.
I Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
Paul did not know me because my imagination is pretty big.
What if God would let me create my own universe?
What an experience that would be.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Modulous, posted 02-04-2009 9:33 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2009 7:09 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 39 of 296 (497735)
02-05-2009 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Modulous
02-05-2009 7:09 AM


Re: The theocratic dictatorship of heaven
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes:
I hope that you were not inspired by God in answer to my letter and that you are simply confused or wrong.
I gave you my answer in Message 15 where I said:
ICANT writes:
God is everlasting and since you are in his image then you are everlasting also. You don't have a choice
Your Mother and Father had sex the sperm fertilized the egg and you are the result.
So stop blaming God for your existence. Take it up with them.
ICANT writes:
Everlasting life with God if you so choose.
Everlasting contempt with the devil. No choice required.
You have one option. You can be born again or continue as you are.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Everything you need to get to heaven is contained in those three verses.
Modulous writes:
You seem to describe an eternal life with no challenges and no learning.
ICANT writes:
Then we will have a new heaven (universe) and a new earth.
A new heaven and a new earth to explore and the capability to go anywhere in that universe.
ICANT writes:
This throne shall be in the New Jerusalem, a city of 1500 cubic miles. Whose streets are pure gold.
What a beautiful sight. With the ability to walk on pure gold. The substance man spends his entire life on earth trying to gather up to leave for someone else to enjoy.
ICANT writes:
What if God would let me create my own universe?
A little dreaming but what if He would let us create our own universe? We would be like Him.
Then the privilege to meet God Himself. I long for that day so I can say thank you in person.
Now if you think it would be hollow and pointless gratification to be able to visit anywhere in the universe you desired, live in a city in a mansion, walk on streets of pure gold, walk through the most beautiful garden that the river flows through and maybe even get to create your own universe.
God was right when He had this message for you.
Psalm 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
ICANT

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2009 7:09 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Vacate, posted 02-06-2009 3:02 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 43 by Modulous, posted 02-06-2009 6:34 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 55 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-06-2009 11:54 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 57 by Straggler, posted 02-06-2009 1:54 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 99 by Jaderis, posted 02-10-2009 8:09 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 71 of 296 (497974)
02-06-2009 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Vacate
02-06-2009 3:02 AM


Re: The theocratic dictatorship of heaven
Hi Vacate,
Vacate writes:
Have you really thought out the meaning of eternity?
Sure I have.
It is one great big now.
I had said there would be no sun.
Vacate writes:
Why not?
If you had quoted the entire sentence you would have had your why answered.
ICANT writes:
There will be no sun to count days by as God will be the light as He was in Genesis 1:3.
From Message 15
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Vacate, posted 02-06-2009 3:02 AM Vacate has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 72 of 296 (497977)
02-06-2009 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Modulous
02-06-2009 6:34 AM


Re: God - great designer, poor civil engineer
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes:
My parent's created my eternal soul?
You did not exist until the egg was fertilized at that moment you existed an eternal being.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Modulous, posted 02-06-2009 6:34 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 73 of 296 (497979)
02-06-2009 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Straggler
02-06-2009 1:54 PM


Re: The theocratic dictatorship of heaven
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes:
Are you saying that God does not choose which eternal souls will exist?
That eternal existence is the product of random biological processes?
God does not choose which eternal being will exist. Yep I said that.
It is the product of random biological processes. Yep I said that.
Does God know which ones will be born? Yep.
Does God know which ones will believe in and trust Him to give them eternal life? Yep
How does God know that? He is God and knows everything.
Straggler writes:
Your materialistic view of heaven tells us more about you than it does the nature of God or the afterlife.
I wasn't the engineer or architect that drew the plans or built the New Jerusalem.
I just reported what was there.
And was reporting that it was so valuable we would trample it under our feet.
Straggler writes:
I have heard you claim before that those of us who disbelive seek to be "our own God". However it seems that it is you who seeks to be a God. Not I who seeks only the nothingness of oblivion at the end of my mortal existence.
I do not seek to be anything. I am a child of the King and when the King comes back I will be like Him.
I have not tried to determine what I will be or where I will be. I accepted what God offered me.
You on the other hand and Mod wants to shake your fist in God's face and say no I will have no part of your plan. Just let me cease to exist.
It ain't going to happen. Sorry.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Straggler, posted 02-06-2009 1:54 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Straggler, posted 02-07-2009 9:33 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 74 of 296 (497982)
02-06-2009 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Modulous
02-06-2009 6:45 PM


Re: when metaphysics and semantics collide
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes:
I'm not suggesting one can have eternal 'life' when one is dead. I am simply asking about eternal life - whether my body ceases its metabolic processes at some point during my life or not.
The physical body you have will cease to exist at the end of your life on earth.
Your mind and spirit will exist forever.
At the resurrection you will get an eternal body to house your eternal mind and spirit.
I do not like to talk about eternal life as you but that is what people understand the easiest.
I prefer to talk about eternal existence in an eternal now.
Time is for mortals.
There will be no time in eternity only existence.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Modulous, posted 02-06-2009 6:45 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Modulous, posted 02-07-2009 7:09 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 80 of 296 (498040)
02-07-2009 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Straggler
02-07-2009 9:33 AM


Re: The theocratic dictatorship of heaven
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes:
So as punishment for the accident of birth we will have to suffer eternal existence whether we want it or not. Against our will. Some free-will that is.
Who said you had free will concerning eternal existence?
Not me, and not God.
Straggler writes:
Your obsession with gold paving is bizzarre. Substances are valuable because they are rare. Take away the rarity and you take away the value.
I didn't realize I had an obsession for gold, or material things.
My wife would disagree with you as I have given away a lot more than we have used for ourselves in this life.
I think the gold is just there because it is something valued here. To try to get us to understand that it is not important at all.
Straggler writes:
How noble it must make you feel to know that you are merely fulfilling God's wishes, with no thought for your own greatness, as you progress down the path that leads you to "be like Him".
Actually just the opposite.
I am a very proud man with many talents, and have accomplished much in my lifetime.
But to be so helpless as to not be able to do anything to procure my eternal destiny other that throw myself on the mercy of the court of God is hard to accept.
Straggler writes:
I merely ask not to be punished for that which I am not responsible for.
Providing your assumption that eternity with God would be punishment.
Straggler writes:
I merely ask for justice. Is your God not just ICANT?
You will get justice.
I don't want justice.
I want and have God's grace and mercy, even though I deserve justice.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Straggler, posted 02-07-2009 9:33 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Straggler, posted 02-07-2009 2:32 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 84 of 296 (498052)
02-07-2009 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Straggler
02-07-2009 2:32 PM


Re: The theocratic dictatorship of heaven
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes:
But "Seek that which you do not deserve" hardly seems fitting as an overall expression of the Christian faith does it?
But I don't seek it.
It is a present possession.
But you right most everybody thinks they ought to have to do something so they can deserve the GIFT of God.
But no one can deserve a gift because if they deserve it then it is wages as they have earned it.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Straggler, posted 02-07-2009 2:32 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Straggler, posted 02-07-2009 5:58 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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