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Author Topic:   I Am Not An Atheist!
caldron68
Member (Idle past 3841 days)
Posts: 79
From: USA
Joined: 08-26-2007


Message 136 of 382 (497981)
02-06-2009 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by ICANT
02-06-2009 7:47 PM


Re: To Believers
ICANT writes:
But if his mission is other than deceiving all mankind into not accepting God's free full pardon, Why is God allowing so many to be deceived?
Enlighten me Brother.
Good question! Why WOULD God allow this?
Buzsaw made an excellent point. Do you believe in the story of Job? Has God given Satan PERMISSION to deceive his creation? If so, it is not Satan that is deceiving mankind, it is God.
BTW! It's not what YOU personally have missed by believing in a fantasy, it's the carnage that you have left in your wake.
--Caldron68

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2009 7:47 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2009 10:31 PM caldron68 has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 137 of 382 (497983)
02-06-2009 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by caldron68
02-06-2009 10:13 PM


Re: To Believers
Hi caldron68,
caldron68 writes:
it's the carnage that you have left in your wake.
So enlighten me on the "Massive slaughter" I have left in my past.
Be very specific.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by caldron68, posted 02-06-2009 10:13 PM caldron68 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by caldron68, posted 02-06-2009 11:01 PM ICANT has replied

  
caldron68
Member (Idle past 3841 days)
Posts: 79
From: USA
Joined: 08-26-2007


Message 138 of 382 (497985)
02-06-2009 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by ICANT
02-06-2009 10:31 PM


Re: To Believers
ICANT writes:
So enlighten me on the "Massive slaughter" I have left in my past.
Be very specific.
Ok, how many children have you introduced to the concept of hell, the lake of fire, eternal damnation, torment, torture, everlasting pain and suffering?
--Caldron68

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2009 10:31 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2009 11:27 PM caldron68 has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 139 of 382 (497986)
02-06-2009 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by ICANT
02-06-2009 7:47 PM


Re: To Believers
ICANT writes:
If that is not what his job is, what is his job?
Was Peter wrong when he said:
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
You know what a strawman is, don't you, brother? My position was not denying the above, that Satan's work is deception. My position was that God didn't purposefully dispatch/commission him to deceive the world. He willfully choses to do evil.
But if his mission is other than deceiving all mankind into not accepting God's free full pardon, Why is God allowing so many to be deceived?
Scripture says that God is not willing that any should perish. Why would God commission Satan to deceive them into perishing? One of the missions of Jesus, whom God sent, is to destroy all evil and put all powers "under his feet." I believe that's in Ist Corinthians 15, about verse 52 or so without looking it up.
God does not tell us why Satan is not put away until he is cast into the lake of fire some day. His time is coming when good trumps.
There is a raging war in the universe between Satan and his angels and God's kingdom. God has a reason for allowing this to happen. Perhaps it is to send a loud and clear warning to all of the host of the cosmos/heavens that they should not do as Satan and his rebel angels did; to rebel against God's kingdom.
Don't forget that intelligent beings capable of knowing and interacting with God are a higher kind of creature than brute beasts. Imo, the intelligent beings have an eternal soul property inherent in their being that brute beasts do not have. Thus life after death and eternal torment for all rebellious intelligent soulish creatures such as men and angels etc.
ICANT writes:
God Bless,
May God bless you too, my brother.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2009 7:47 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2009 11:50 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 147 by Percy, posted 02-07-2009 4:43 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 140 of 382 (497987)
02-06-2009 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by caldron68
02-06-2009 11:01 PM


Re: To Believers
Hi caldron68,
caldron68 writes:
Ok, how many children have you introduced to the concept of hell, the lake of fire, eternal damnation, torment, torture, everlasting pain and suffering?
What does that have to do with Massive slaughter or corpses, especially those killed in battle.?
But I do love to introduce them to my friend Jesus and tell them how much He loves them and wants them to love each other.
But to answer your question I have introduced at least 2 that were born to my wife and myself to the love of Jesus and to the consequences of not being born again.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by caldron68, posted 02-06-2009 11:01 PM caldron68 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by caldron68, posted 02-07-2009 12:28 AM ICANT has replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 141 of 382 (497989)
02-06-2009 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by ICANT
02-06-2009 8:38 PM


Re: Almost there
I tell my people not to believe a word I say unless they can find it in their Bible.
How do you know that Satan didn't deceive the writers of the Bible, too.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2009 8:38 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by ICANT, posted 02-07-2009 12:03 AM bluescat48 has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 142 of 382 (497990)
02-06-2009 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Buzsaw
02-06-2009 11:02 PM


Re: To Believers
Hi Brother,
Buzsaw writes:
You know what a strawman is, don't you, brother?
Yep, was just on a fishing trip.
Buzsaw writes:
I believe that's in Ist Corinthians 15, about verse 52 or so without looking it up.
Actually it was Peter who said:
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
The next time you need to look up something try This
In the search area you can type any phrase, if it is in the Bible it will give every instance of it. You can also change versions of the Bible.
Buzsaw writes:
There is a raging war in the universe between Satan and his angels and God's kingdom.
I am looking forward to the time when he will be chained in the bottomless pit for a thousand years and there is peace on earth.
May God Bless You and Yours,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Buzsaw, posted 02-06-2009 11:02 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 143 of 382 (497991)
02-07-2009 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by bluescat48
02-06-2009 11:41 PM


Re: Almost there
Hi cat,
bluescat48 writes:
How do you know that Satan didn't deceive the writers of the Bible, too.
The original was inspired by God. But the translations was done by man and could contain error.
That is the reason God gave the Holy Spirit to each one of them to teach them all things.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by bluescat48, posted 02-06-2009 11:41 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by bluescat48, posted 02-07-2009 12:11 AM ICANT has not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 144 of 382 (497992)
02-07-2009 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by ICANT
02-07-2009 12:03 AM


Re: Almost there
The original was inspired by God.
But how do you know this?

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by ICANT, posted 02-07-2009 12:03 AM ICANT has not replied

  
caldron68
Member (Idle past 3841 days)
Posts: 79
From: USA
Joined: 08-26-2007


Message 145 of 382 (497994)
02-07-2009 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by ICANT
02-06-2009 11:27 PM


Re: To Believers
ICANT writes:
What does that have to do with Massive slaughter or corpses, especially those killed in battle.?
Ok, I agree, carnage was not the correct word to use in this case. Let's use damage instead. Happy?
ICANT writes:
But I do love to introduce them to my friend Jesus and tell them how much He loves them and wants them to love each other.
So are you saying that you only tell them half the story?
ICANT writes:
But to answer your question I have introduced at least 2 that were born to my wife and myself to the love of Jesus and to the consequences of not being born again.
No really, how many children have you introduced to the concept of hell? In a previous thread concerning the meaning of Matt 7:13-14, you mentioned that you have been a figure of authority in one or more churches for over 25 years. In that time, how many small children have you introduced to the consequences of sin?
Telling a child that they're going to hell if they sin is child abuse.
--Caldron68

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2009 11:27 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Percy, posted 02-07-2009 4:37 AM caldron68 has replied
 Message 153 by ICANT, posted 02-07-2009 12:25 PM caldron68 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 146 of 382 (498010)
02-07-2009 4:37 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by caldron68
02-07-2009 12:28 AM


Re: To Believers
caldron68 writes:
Ok, I agree, carnage was not the correct word to use in this case.
It was the precisely right word, your meaning was perfectly clear. Get used to ICANT's misinterpretations when he doesn't have an answer, which is often. Half the replies to ICANT begin with, "That's not what I meant" or "You missed the point."
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by caldron68, posted 02-07-2009 12:28 AM caldron68 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by caldron68, posted 02-07-2009 8:58 AM Percy has replied
 Message 154 by ICANT, posted 02-07-2009 1:26 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 147 of 382 (498011)
02-07-2009 4:43 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Buzsaw
02-06-2009 11:02 PM


Re: To Believers
Buzsaw writes:
There is a raging war in the universe between Satan and his angels and God's kingdom.
This issue about whether Satan's actions are God's will sprang from my point that Christians believe in at least two gods, two supernatural beings, God and Satan. ICANT gets around this by explaining that Satan is just another angel, just another projection of God's will. In this view Satan is not another supernatural being, but just another manifestation of the one God.
But if that's not the case, if as you say Satan is not carrying out God's will, if Satan is not just another manifestation of the one God, then Christians believe in two gods, one who they worship, another who they fear.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Buzsaw, posted 02-06-2009 11:02 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Buzsaw, posted 02-07-2009 9:10 AM Percy has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 148 of 382 (498021)
02-07-2009 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by ICANT
02-06-2009 7:16 PM


Re: Topic
There may be 34,000+ religious systems in the world but only one system is correct. Just like the bomb you better make the right choice.
I don't have an option I must be right.
Exactly. Your confidence is borne of your ignorance and your need to be right. It is not borne of reason.
Many think as you do on this issue.
They also know that they are right regarding which path is the right one. But they have chosen a different path to you.
They believe equally that you have been decieved as you do they.
The only thing that matters is what God says.
It does matter what we believe.
We must believe and accept what God says or else. Just like the bomb.
Many others also believe themselves to accept what God says whilst believing something completely different to you.
Who has been decieved here? Maybe they are more enlightened than you. Maybe you have been decieved and not they.
Who really can tell?
Thus your confidence in the path you have taken is borne of ignorance. Not reason.
Have the last word on this if you wish. This is now getting relatively off topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2009 7:16 PM ICANT has not replied

  
caldron68
Member (Idle past 3841 days)
Posts: 79
From: USA
Joined: 08-26-2007


Message 149 of 382 (498022)
02-07-2009 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by Percy
02-07-2009 4:37 AM


Re: To Believers
Percy writes:
It was the precisely right word, your meaning was perfectly clear. Get used to ICANT's misinterpretations when he doesn't have an answer, which is often. Half the replies to ICANT begin with, "That's not what I meant" or "You missed the point."
Thank you Percy. I really appreciate you stepping in and helping out on this and other threads that I have been involved in. The meaning of the word in the post was clear but the use of that word within that specific context was incorrect. I knew better, but it was late and I was tired.
Thanks
--Caldron68

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Percy, posted 02-07-2009 4:37 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Percy, posted 02-07-2009 9:21 AM caldron68 has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 150 of 382 (498023)
02-07-2009 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Percy
02-07-2009 4:43 AM


Re: To Believers
Percy writes:
This issue about whether Satan's actions are God's will sprang from my point that Christians believe in at least two gods, two supernatural beings, God and Satan. ICANT gets around this by explaining that Satan is just another angel, just another projection of God's will. In this view Satan is not another supernatural being, but just another manifestation of the one God.
But if that's not the case, if as you say Satan is not carrying out God's will, if Satan is not just another manifestation of the one God, then Christians believe in two gods, one who they worship, another who they fear.
1. I don't know of any evangelicals who regard Satan as a god. We believe that there are other entities in the cosmos besides God and humans. Some are called angels. Angels have degrees of authority and power. Some are referred to in the scripture as archangels Most believe he was Lucifer, a high angel, but I'm not convinced of that, though it could be.
2 I'm not aware that Catholics and more liberal Protestants regard Satan as a god either.
3. Most believe that Satan was a highly favored and high ranking entity in God's kingdom who rebelled, taking with him a third of the angels of the cosmos/heavens. I believe this comes from Revelation 12 where the angels were depicted as stars. This is possible, imo, as I don't see the physical stars of cosmos as a possibility here.
In summary, Percy, I think you're stretching it to claim that Christians regard Satan as a god. That just is not the case, though there may be a few who would agree with you.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Percy, posted 02-07-2009 4:43 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Percy, posted 02-07-2009 9:42 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
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