Devil writes:
Again, I have no problem with this on a human level, but as God why would he disobey his own laws in the first place. Why not set clear cut humane laws that would not cause modern humans to have to rationalize away or cherry pick verses to make them fit our more humane and fair moral systems that we live by today.
To me it is speaks volumes of the moral inconsistency between the OT and the NT and the desire for religious fundamentalists to try to hold onto what ever scraps of there religion they have left
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Its good to see you again my ole Naval friend, or should I callyou Lord Helment (Dark Helment} from somewhere in the Ford Galaxy, I just love using that line from spaceballs. Rick Moranes is a straight crack up, his part in that movie is priceless. But then I was always very easy to impress. Then ofcourse there is "Yogart", the "everlasting know it all", or Cavediver, which ever is easier, ha ha. Just kidding CD, dont have a anurism.
Anywho let me address you latest comments concerning Jesus' actions that you have described as unlawful.In Matt 12:1-21 I think you will find the answers you are looking.
1. At that season Jesus went on the sabbath day through the grainfields; and his disciples were hungry and began to pluck ears and to eat. 2. But the Pharisees, when they saw it, said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which it is not lawful to do upon the sabbath. 3. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him; 4. how he entered into the house of God, and ate the showbread, which it was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them that were with him, but only for the priests? 5. Or have ye not read in the law, that on the sabbath day the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are guiltless? 6. But I say unto you, that one greater than the temple is here. 7. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I desire mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8. For the Son of man is lord of the sabbath. 9. And he departed thence, and went into their synagogue: 10. and behold, a man having a withered hand. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day? that they might accuse him. 11. And he said unto them, What man shall there be of you, that shall have one sheep, and if this fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? 12. How much then is a man of more value than a sheep! Wherefore it is lawful to do good on the sabbath day. 13. Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thy hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, as the other. 14. But the Pharisees went out, and took counsel against him, how they might destroy him. 15. And Jesus perceiving `it' withdrew from thence: and many followed him; and he healed them all, 16. and charged them that they should not make him known: 17. that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through Isaiah the prophet, saying, 18. Behold, my servant whom I have chosen; My beloved in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit upon him, And he shall declare judgment to the Gentiles. 19. He shall not strive, nor cry aloud; Neither shall any one hear his voice in the streets. 20. A bruised reed shall he not break, And smoking flax shall he not quench, Till he send forth judgment unto victory. 21. And in his name shall the Gentiles hope.
It should be remembered in this context that while Jesus was in full human form, he never ceased to be the immortal God in any respect.
"let this mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God, but made of himself no reputation and humbled himself and was found in fashion of a servant and he became obedient even unto death"
"In him dwelt all the fulness of the Godhead, bodily" That is while in the flesh he was fully God.
"The Son of man is lord of the sabbath", "But I say unto you there is one greater than the temple here", "Before Abraham was, I Am
In these passages he makes it very clear that God or the son of man is Lord of the Sabbath. As God he can adjust a law that he has made to to demonstrate another moral point, without contradiction. As to this point he makes it clear that he "desires mercy rather than sacrifice". In this instance he was demonstrating a higher principle
It should be noted that these laws were made for man not God and there can be no contradiction in his actions.
In a will or a testament the arbitrator of the will may change or adjust that as he sees fit during his life. Hebrews 9. The Old Law or testament was Gods laws and wishes in this connection and as an objective moral standard his decisions and wishes apply to man.
It is true in this instance that had Jesus (God) not been present, they would have been justified in carryng out the Law. However, Jesus knowing thier hearts and that thier deisres were not to fulfill Gods wishes, he desired to point out a higher principleand to display what thier actual intentions actually were. He then reinforces the his point by stating that the Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath. In the instance in John 8, the same principle would apply. Jesus is not ignoring or disobeying the Law, he is the Lord of the laws.
To corroborate the point that only God has a right to pass judgement on man, he reinforces his point by stating "let HE that is without sin among you cast the first stone." He knew there intentions here were one of piety and not a desire to fulfill Gods law, as a result he used the situation to demonstrate a higher principle. He did it by being the author of the Law in the first place and demonstrated further his deity, over man and our perceptions of subjective moral standards. He closes the door in this situation and the one in John chapter 8 on who and what he is in this respect.
It is no different than the instance, when he was challenged about telling a man his sins were forgiven after he had healed him. With one simple line he quited them by asking, "Which is easier to do, tell the man to rise up and walk or tell him his sins are forgiven" In other words, dont both actions demonstrate who and what I AM.
What seems like a contradiction or contradictory actions is easily understandable, when it is taken in context and in its entirity. There were times when Jesus (God) corrected misunderstandings about the Sabbath, Law and Sin, then there were times he set the sentence aside to demonstrate a higher principle. But then ONLY God can do this correct, so there is no immediate contradiction or MORAL INCONSISTENCIES, correct once again? One might as well try and condemn Gods action in Cannan, concerning certain actions with some verses his mercy with others. He can only know what is RIGHT, MORAL AND JUST.
To me it is speaks volumes of the moral inconsistency between the OT and the NT and the desire for religious fundamentalists to try to hold onto what ever scraps of there religion they have left.
Thus, with a simple explanation and a little contextual and total scriptural perspective, your whole assertion and contention falls to the ground, like a house of cards, DA.
If a man wants to complain about the God of the Bible and his actions, atleast let him understand what the Bible has to say in its entirity about that God.
D Bertot
Edited by Bertot, : No reason given.
Edited by Bertot, : No reason given.
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