Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 78 (8896 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 03-24-2019 11:28 AM
31 online now:
edge, PaulK, Tanypteryx (3 members, 28 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: WookieeB
Post Volume:
Total: 848,618 Year: 3,655/19,786 Month: 650/1,087 Week: 19/221 Day: 19/36 Hour: 1/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
...
567
8
910Next
Author Topic:   How will creationists react to the first human-chimp hybrid?
SpicyCurry
Junior Member (Idle past 3591 days)
Posts: 3
From: Ocala, Florida
Joined: 02-12-2009


Message 106 of 138 (498644)
02-12-2009 2:56 PM


I always wonder how creationists are so comfortable picking a fight with only specific branches of science--the ones they're threatened by. No one disputes the fundamental laws of thermodynamics. No one questions the aerodynamic principles that allows planes to fly. Because if one did, even creationists would think them touched in the head.

I bet that despite all the arguing and disbelief if a geneticist told a creationist that their kids could suffer from Friedreich’s ataxia, they'd think twice about having kids.

Anyway, I just read an article from 2005 that shows how the Chinese have already done--to a small extent anyway--exactly what this thread hypothesizes about:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0125_050125_chimeras.html

Edited by SpicyCurry, : Forgot to paste about article


Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by shalamabobbi, posted 02-12-2009 7:00 PM SpicyCurry has not yet responded

    
shalamabobbi
Member (Idle past 927 days)
Posts: 397
Joined: 01-10-2009


Message 107 of 138 (498681)
02-12-2009 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by SpicyCurry
02-12-2009 2:56 PM


mice with human brains
And at Stanford University in California an experiment might be done later this year to create mice with human brains.

I hope they don't teach them to fence..


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by SpicyCurry, posted 02-12-2009 2:56 PM SpicyCurry has not yet responded

    
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2072 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 108 of 138 (498702)
02-12-2009 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by cavediver
12-02-2008 7:40 AM


Human/chimp
1) Successful human cloning
2) Successful creation of life from non-life
3) Successful breeding of human and chimpanzee/bononbo

Dunno if I could stoop to bonking chimps.

Tho` some of them females are mighty purty.

Yes, sirree.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by cavediver, posted 12-02-2008 7:40 AM cavediver has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by RAZD, posted 02-12-2009 9:45 PM Nighttrain has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19758
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 109 of 138 (498704)
02-12-2009 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Nighttrain
02-12-2009 9:39 PM


Re: Human/chimp
there's a country song making the rounds, with something like

"went home with a 10 at 2 and woke up with a 2 at 10"

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Nighttrain, posted 02-12-2009 9:39 PM Nighttrain has not yet responded

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 3008 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 110 of 138 (498725)
02-13-2009 6:24 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by cavediver
12-03-2008 4:54 AM


cavediver writes:

Or are you willing to stick your neck out and declare that it cannot possibly happen because chimps and humans are 'obviously' of different kinds?

what if they use genetic engineering to accomplish it?

will it prove anything, disprove anything>???


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by cavediver, posted 12-03-2008 4:54 AM cavediver has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-13-2009 7:06 AM Peg has responded

    
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1180 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 111 of 138 (498728)
02-13-2009 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Peg
02-13-2009 6:24 AM


what if they use genetic engineering to accomplish it?

will it prove anything, disprove anything>???

Sexual reproduction is in fact natural genetic engineering i.e. recombining DNA from two genetically different hosts to make one new genetically different organism. The only difference between natural and artificial genetic engineering is skipping the nasty, sex part. :P


For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan
This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Peg, posted 02-13-2009 6:24 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Peg, posted 02-23-2009 4:59 AM DevilsAdvocate has not yet responded

  
jigsaw207
Junior Member (Idle past 3590 days)
Posts: 3
From: Amman, Jordan
Joined: 02-26-2009


Message 112 of 138 (499816)
02-20-2009 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
01-15-2008 8:25 AM


Human Brain and Evolution
Hi, I'm new to this forum and to evolution also, I'm not creationist nor evolutionist I'm still reading and gaining more knowledge.

I was discussing evolution with one of my friends when he asked me the following question: Why evolution didn't produce species with sophisticated brain (similar or more intelligent) such as human kind ? human beings are the only species that have a very sophisticated brain is it a coincidence ?

I would be grateful if you give me the scientific answer for this question.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by cavediver, posted 01-15-2008 8:25 AM cavediver has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by bluegenes, posted 02-20-2009 8:13 PM jigsaw207 has not yet responded
 Message 115 by RAZD, posted 02-20-2009 9:12 PM jigsaw207 has not yet responded

    
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 556 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 113 of 138 (499821)
02-20-2009 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by jigsaw207
02-20-2009 7:24 PM


Re: Human Brain and Evolution
jigsaw207 writes:

I was discussing evolution with one of my friends when he asked me the following question: Why evolution didn't produce species with sophisticated brain (similar or more intelligent) such as human kind ? human beings are the only species that have a very sophisticated brain is it a coincidence ?

It's not coincidence that the species with the most sophisticated brain is the one most likely to be discussing its brain, as we are now! It's worth pointing out that there are other animals that could be regarded as being fairly close to us in terms of brain sophistication. We're not as special as we often like to think. Some intelligent mammals are more comparable to us than they are to, for example, lizards.

Evolution could certainly produce other animals with intelligence of our level or above. It hasn't yet, but it hadn't produced us a few hundred thousand years ago, either.

Dolphins have larger brains than we do, and they don't fight silly wars, so can we really be objectively sure that we're the most intelligent of the two?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by jigsaw207, posted 02-20-2009 7:24 PM jigsaw207 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by RAZD, posted 02-20-2009 9:07 PM bluegenes has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19758
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 114 of 138 (499824)
02-20-2009 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by bluegenes
02-20-2009 8:13 PM


Re: Human Brain and Evolution
Dolphins have larger brains than we do, and they don't fight silly wars, so can we really be objectively sure that we're the most intelligent of the two?

And they carved "Goodbye and thank you for all the fish" on a glass just before the earth was destroyed to make way for a hyperspace station.

Another species that quite likely had as much intelligence as well as a larger brain were the Neanderthals. The evidence is that they were capable of speech and buried their dead with ceremonies.

They were driven to extinction, by all indications, by Cro-Magnon Homo sap because they were competition.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by bluegenes, posted 02-20-2009 8:13 PM bluegenes has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19758
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 115 of 138 (499825)
02-20-2009 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by jigsaw207
02-20-2009 7:24 PM


Re: Human Brain and Evolution
Welcome to the fray jigsaw207,

I would be grateful if you give me the scientific answer for this question.

What we see in other organisms is not a different type of intelligence\sophistication, but different degrees of intelligence such that the most intelligent of several other life forms overlaps the range of intelligence\sophistication in humans.

Do a google on communication with animals and see how many articles there are.

Look at Dolphin Silver Ring Art

Enjoy.

... as you are new here, some posting tips:

type [qs]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:

quotes are easy

or type [quote]quotes are easy[/quote] and it becomes:

quote:
quotes are easy

also check out (help) links on any formating questions when in the reply window.

For other formating tips see Posting Tips

If you use the message reply buttons (there's one at the bottom right of each message):


... your message is linked to the one you are replying to (adds clarity). You can also look at the way a post is formated with the "peek" button next to it.

(thanks admin)


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by jigsaw207, posted 02-20-2009 7:24 PM jigsaw207 has not yet responded

  
jigsaw207
Junior Member (Idle past 3590 days)
Posts: 3
From: Amman, Jordan
Joined: 02-26-2009


Message 116 of 138 (499946)
02-21-2009 2:27 PM


Thank you RAZD and bluegenes for your answers, I find the idea of evolution attracting and plausible every time I introduced to one of its facts, evolution has a lot of evidence support it. on the other hand when I read something written by creationists or watch a documentary about the evidence of young universe and young earth I find it convincing also, they have scientific facts support their claim, so every time I try to investigate I get lost.

I don't want to be biased to one side, I'm searching for the truth.


Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by RAZD, posted 02-21-2009 2:38 PM jigsaw207 has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19758
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 117 of 138 (499947)
02-21-2009 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by jigsaw207
02-21-2009 2:27 PM


Thanks jigsaw207,

... on the other hand when I read something written by creationists or watch a documentary about the evidence of young universe and young earth I find it convincing also, they have scientific facts support their claim, so every time I try to investigate I get lost.

And the preacher, the politician and the used car salesman all sound convincing at one time or another. The problem is that when you personally know little about the subject, many arguments can seem reasonable. Advertising people make their livelihood by making their product seem reasonable.

The evidence against a young earth is fairly simple to understand, and I'd be happy to walk you through it on the Age Correlations and an Old Earth: Version 1 No 3 (formerly Part III) thread. We like to keep posts in a thread on the topic of the first post in that thread, and thus it would be off-topic to discuss it here.

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : ot


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by jigsaw207, posted 02-21-2009 2:27 PM jigsaw207 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by jigsaw207, posted 02-24-2009 2:55 AM RAZD has responded

  
SpicyCurry
Junior Member (Idle past 3591 days)
Posts: 3
From: Ocala, Florida
Joined: 02-12-2009


Message 118 of 138 (500058)
02-22-2009 1:39 PM


Not to go off topic here, but how do creationists deal with the fact that human embryos exhibit certain stages of evolution during prenatal development? We call this ontogeny recapitulating hylogeny... where the development of the individual goes through some of the characteristics of the animals lower in the evolutionary development.

In the example of humans, the common ancestor of humans and monkeys had a tail, and human embryos also have a tail at one point; it later recedes to form the coccyx.

Another example can be found in whales. Whales, which have evolved from land mammals, don't have legs, but tiny remnant leg bones lie buried deep in their bodies. During embryonal development, leg extremities first occur, then recede. Similarly, whale embryos have hair at one stage (like all mammalian embryos), but lose most of it later.

Not only is ontogeny recapitulating hylogeny observed in humans, but it is also directly paralleled in other species. What more, this process can be clearly identified in images taken of early stage embryos, providing direct evidence--the lack of which creationists lament endlessly--and leaving very little ambiguity to interpretation.

What say you?


Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Huntard, posted 02-22-2009 1:49 PM SpicyCurry has not yet responded

    
Huntard
Member (Idle past 374 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 119 of 138 (500059)
02-22-2009 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by SpicyCurry
02-22-2009 1:39 PM


SpicyCurry writes:

Not to go off topic here, but how do creationists deal with the fact that human embryos exhibit certain stages of evolution during prenatal development? We call this ontogeny recapitulating hylogeny... where the development of the individual goes through some of the characteristics of the animals lower in the evolutionary development.


They whine about Haeckel faking drawings 130 years or so ago. Not mentioning that we have better images now, and that they show that the stages ARE similar. And that's basically it.


I hunt for the truth

What you can do in my country and get away with:

Softdrugs? Legal!
Legal drinking age? 16!
Birth control (the pill)? Free!
Gay marriage? Legal!
Abortion? Legal!
Euthanasia? Legal!
Age of consent? 16 (14 if you have the parents permission)!

Yep, only one way down for us!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by SpicyCurry, posted 02-22-2009 1:39 PM SpicyCurry has not yet responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3008 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 120 of 138 (500118)
02-23-2009 4:59 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by DevilsAdvocate
02-13-2009 7:06 AM


devilsadvocate writes:

Sexual reproduction is in fact natural genetic engineering i.e. recombining DNA from two genetically different hosts to make one new genetically different organism. The only difference between natural and artificial genetic engineering is skipping the nasty, sex part

yes that might be true within the same species,

what is the evolutionary explanation of why there is a barrier preventing this happening between different species?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-13-2009 7:06 AM DevilsAdvocate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by SpicyCurry, posted 02-23-2009 8:49 AM Peg has not yet responded

    
Prev1
...
567
8
910Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019