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Author | Topic: Are there two Christs in the Bible? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
doctrbill Member (Idle past 2791 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
Any serious Bible study needs to clarify the biblical definition of terms. The importance of parsing the Old Testament definition of the term 'Christ' cannot be over-emphasized.
What's that you say? The word Christ doesn't appear in the Old Testament? Well then, you must be reading the Bible in English. The word 'Christ' appears plentifully in the old Greek and Latin Bibles. Why has the word 'Christ' been removed from my Bible? We must understand what this term meant to Jews before Saul of Tarsus and the Christian Church gave it their special spin. The Jewish understanding of the term 'Christ' had not changed from the time when they applied it to any and every king of Israel. There is no reason for us to assume that Jesus spoke this word with some new, special, and hidden definition in mind; just waiting for Saul, and the RCC to explain it. I maintain: it was a term of power politics which for the Jews, inspired national pride; and for the Romans, raised the specter of a Jewish rebellion. Seems to me, Christians should have already been told about this. Theology is the science of Dominion. - - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2791 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
Come now my friends.
Am I alone in this realization. Hasn't anyone among you suspected the truth of this? Not even suspected it? Theology is the science of Dominion. - - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3484 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
I knew that christos meant annointed and the Hebrew word for annointed, but never looked at how the LXX and the Vulgate had used it. I've only found links to the LXX and vulgate in the last year and have looked at a few words and how they are used in the other translations, but hadn't looked at the word Christ. I guess I never thought about it since I understood it meant annointed.
So technically speaking there has been more than one Christ. It is scary how much we are at the mercy of our translations. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2791 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
purpledawn writes: It is scary how much we are at the mercy of our translations. Indeed. Virtually every translationn has been the result of committee action. Men agreeing to disagree for the sake of getting out their product (a revision of holy scripture). Determining by majority vote, what the holy scripture shall say. In the course of comparing various versions I see strengths and weaknesses in the committee approach. One advantage is that it allows the work to be completed in less than a lifetime. There may be disadvantage in the fact that committee members possess varying degrees of expertise and honesty. I have observed that some committee members are bold and liberal with their translation while other are cautious and/or squeamish. One of my favorite examples of this reality comes from the Living Bible (now replaced by the more traditional and far less colorful: New Living Translation). The first example is outstandingly liberal yet piercingly perceptive and, to my knowledge, unprecedented among the hundred or so versions extant. Ezekiel 16:7 quote: quote: quote: The Living Bible is, technically speaking, a paraphrase. Sometimes paraphrase is the best way to go. Sometimes direct translation destroys the intended imagery. This is an especially significant matter in the case of Ezekiel. Ezekiel was quite fond of pornographic imagery. No one really doubts that the hair in question is pubic and failing to say so may wrongly suggest to some readers that the young lady's head had been shorn. Dropping in the word 'pubic' is consistent with the earthy imagery for which Ezekiel is known and loved. I had another example in mind; an example of an exceptionally timid paraphrase from the Living Bible but haven't been able to locate it this morning. If and when I rediscover it, I'll be happy to pass it along. Suffice it to say that more honest renditions of holy scripture are 'out there.' Theology is the science of Dominion. - - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3624 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
doctrbill: The importance of parsing the Old Testament definition of the term 'Christ' cannot be over-emphasized..... We must understand what this term meant to Jews before Saul of Tarsus and the Christian Church gave it their special spin. The Jewish understanding of the term 'Christ' had not changed from the time when they applied it to any and every king of Israel. Part of that 'special spin', too, owes to the content already given to the word Christos by non-Jewish speakers of Greek in the Roman Empire. A title like 'Annointed One', though common to all Greek speakers, was loaded with specific cultural implications. Many of these were themselves derived from traditions and rituals of ancient origin. The significance of the title Christos would be very different for a Judean Pharisee conditioned to hear it as a translation of the Hebrew Meshiach than for a Macedonian Mithraist with no experience of Judaism at all. Just the same, it would be a powerful symbol for both individuals--and they might well find themselves sitting side by side at a prayer meeting after Saul of Tarsus came through town. Each would sing praise to Christos while holding very different understandings of the term. Spin accrues from the bottom up as well as the top down. A different character and theological flavor was bound to emerge in the new religion as soon as some regions of the empire produced more converts than others, or as Gentiles began converting in larger numbers than Jews. The skew in understandings would influence the direction taken by the new religion regardless of what its evangelists said. It would even affect what they said. _ Edited by Archer Opterix, : HTML. Archer All species are transitional.
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2791 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
Archer Opterix writes: A title like 'Annointed One', though common to all Greek speakers, was loaded with specific cultural implications. Hi Archer, Thank you for that informative blurb. It explains a lot and complicates the issue. Life was so much simpler before I learned the whole truth. Theology is the science of Dominion. - - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
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thehousethatGodbuilt Junior Member (Idle past 5549 days) Posts: 3 From: Earth Joined: |
The Kingdom of God is at hand! Make straight the path of the Lord!
God's Ambassador of the Kingdom of Heaven. |
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thehousethatGodbuilt Junior Member (Idle past 5549 days) Posts: 3 From: Earth Joined: |
I would propose maybe a different viewpoint.
Exactly where do you think Christ is right now? If in your arguementation and presentation of your viewpoints, what if Christ returns in a way that you think not? Remember, Jesus came on the scene as an ANTHROPOS. Meaning, He was as much God as He was man. He is so much man that when His mother came to Him saying the wine is all gone, He would refute her in saying, "woman, my time has not come." But, He is so much God that He would turn water into wine, and it would be the best last. He is so much man that when his friend died, He cried. But, He is so much God that He would command the friend to rise to the occasion and live! He is so much man that He would allow His physical body to suffer and die, but He is so much God that He got His own self up! Nonetheless, He was reconsiling humanity! He came in a form that none would suppose, even though they knew the Scripture? He would come in a way and a means, a method and a type, a fact and a form that would blow even the religious leaders mind! So the question, would He come in a way that you think not? So I ask, what if God came in a way that you would think not? One would do well to review Ephesians... Back it up with Colossians. and a hint of Thessalonians... But what do I know, this is God's! He is the King, I have no position. But if you ask me, The King would have something to say... An Ambassador for the Kingdom of God!
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4020 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
Go preach somewhere else. Here we dissect, not waffle.
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thehousethatGodbuilt Junior Member (Idle past 5549 days) Posts: 3 From: Earth Joined: |
I think I will stick around. I enjoy hearing and listening to all.
The subject matter was concerning 2 Christs or 2 different times. Still reading the thread, and my response was based upon the information that was presented. This is not preaching, it is called being real! But since you brought it up...God Bless You An Ambassador for the Kingdom of God.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4956 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Melchizadek was a high priest AND a king in the days of Abraham
The scripture in psalm ("he'll come according to the manner of Melchizadek") gave the Hebrews reason to regard the promised Messiah as the one in whom the office of priest and king would be combined. The apostle Paul, in Heb 6:20; 5:10; Identifies Jesus as the one in whom the scripture in Psalms is to be applied when he said "Jesus, who has become a high priest according to the manner of Melchizedek forever." So, High Priest & King Jesus is both a King of Gods Kingdom and a High Priest who has authority to take sins away from the people.
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4020 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
Jesus is both a King of Gods Kingdom and a High Priest who has authority to take sins away from the people.
Since Jesus is NOT descended in the paternal line from either Aaron or David, how can he legitimately be high priest?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4956 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Hi Nighttrain,
Nighttrain writes:
Since Jesus is NOT descended in the paternal line from either Aaron or David, how can he legitimately be high priest? what makes you think he was not?
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4020 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
Nighttrain writes:
Unless I missed something, the biological 'father' of Jesus was the Holy Ghost/Spirit.
Since Jesus is NOT descended in the paternal line from either Aaron or David, how can he legitimately be high priest? what makes you think he was not?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4956 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
if you believe the holy ghost/spirit is a person, perhaps
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