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Author Topic:   51 scientific facts that disprove the Bible
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1805 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 151 of 167 (498696)
02-12-2009 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by General Anubis
02-12-2009 3:41 PM


Re: One of the most pathetic lists I've ever seen
The important thing to note, however, is that believing the Bible is the inerrant word of God and being born again (and redeemed from your sins) are the only requirements for entering heaven.

:eek: so believing that the Bible is inerrant is a requirement for entering heaven! There's going to be a very large bunch of highly pissed-off born-again Christians, who just weren't big on that inerrancy crap, languishing in hell :laugh:

So, while a belief in young-earth creationism may be scientifically unsound, the fact remains that they are still Christian. Therefore, the majority of my effort is directed toward countering evolutionist claims in an attempt to pull just one more out of the fire.

:eek: so "evolutionists" cannot be Christians? What about all my close friends at T. Baptist Church in South London, each a scientist, each very much in agreement with the theory of evolution, and each an evangelical born-again Christian? Are they for hell, too?

And as a scientist, and someone who was a born-again Christian for twenty-four years, I'm pissing myself laughing at your dismissal of YECism as scientifically unsound :laugh: You wouldn't know "sound" if it was slapping you round the face with a fresh lobster :)

Anyway, back to your idiocy:

The Pleiades and Orion clusters are actually written out fully-named as such in the Bible, not just referenced as 'stars'. This reference is made in Job, where God himself is speaking and asking Job (and his friends) who else can "bind the chains of Pleiades, or loose the cords of Orion?"

Really? And what exactly would the Orion "cluster" be? And it is written out fully-named in the Bible? Wow, I didn't know that it even existed! And as an astrophysicist, I really would have thought I would have known that...

Here's a quick snippet from Wiki (I know, I hate it too, but it is useful):

quote:
Also, like most open clusters, the Pleiades will not stay gravitationally bound forever, as some component stars will be ejected after close encounters and others will be stripped by tidal gravitational fields. Calculations suggest that the cluster will take about 250 million years to disperse, with gravitational interactions with giant molecular clouds and the spiral arms of the galaxy also hastening its demise.

Look's like God is wrong again, huh? Omniscience just isn't what it used to be...

Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by General Anubis, posted 02-12-2009 3:41 PM General Anubis has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by General Anubis, posted 02-13-2009 12:37 PM cavediver has responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 19865
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 152 of 167 (498697)
02-12-2009 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Buzsaw
02-12-2009 8:28 PM


Re: Man's Dominion
They're included in the phrase, "all moving things."

Which includes subatomic particles and planets. Pantheism anyone?

Enjoy.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Buzsaw, posted 02-12-2009 8:28 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 639 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 153 of 167 (498711)
02-13-2009 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Buzsaw
02-12-2009 8:28 PM


Re: Man's Dominion
Buzsaw writes:

He has mentioned them all in Genesis 1. They're included in the phrase, "all moving things." That's my final comment relative to your nitpicky nonsense.

All moving things? All moving things. Buzsaw, if this planet has a creator God, he cannot be the author of your Bible. Any creator of life on this planet has to be a prokaryote lover. Ask anyone who knows their biology. This planet was clearly created for them. The creator created them first, and he created them lovingly, and watched over them lovingly for 2 or 3 billion years before he bothered to create anything else, and they still comprise most of the life on earth. It is obvious that creatures like us were only created to accommodate those billions that exist happily in each of our bodies (and which keep us alive).

If you worshipped the true creator, you would thank Him for them in your prayers. They are the Chosen Ones. A book that does not mention them specifically and in detail cannot be the word of the creator God of this world. Their ubiquity and dominance disproves the Bible.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3883
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 154 of 167 (498712)
02-13-2009 1:05 AM


Wrap it up time
As best I know, the "51 scientific facts" of the topic title and message 1 were never found, thus dooming this topic to go amuck.

Let's wrap it up. If there's some particularly good theme lurking in there, how about a new topic?

Adminnemooseus


Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 3489
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 155 of 167 (498713)
02-13-2009 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by General Anubis
02-12-2009 3:41 PM


Where does the Bible say that?
The important thing to note, however, is that believing the Bible is the inerrant word of God and being born again (and redeemed from your sins) are the only requirements for entering heaven.

According to whom is "believing the Bible is the inerrant word of God" one of the only two requirements? And by what authority?

Cutting to the chase here, based on similar encounters I've had in the past, may we assume that you would answer that it's the Bible itself that states that requirement. To which the question is, where in the Bible does it say that?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by General Anubis, posted 02-12-2009 3:41 PM General Anubis has responded

Replies to this message:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2156 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 156 of 167 (498718)
02-13-2009 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by General Anubis
02-12-2009 8:12 AM


Re: One of the most pathetic lists I've ever seen
17.) This has already been answered by other posters, but it mostly comes down to translation and symbolism. The most accurate Hebrew-to-English translation that we have (99.9% accuracy to original text - I have many references to cite this number if you wish), the NASB or NIV (both are equally accurate) say that the eagle 'hovers' over its young. This suggests the way that eagles brood over their nests, as do most birds.
- The argument here is a pretty pathetic attempt at debunking the Bible, IMO.

99.9%? Since we don`t have anything even approximating the autographs, this sounds like another POOMA.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by General Anubis, posted 02-12-2009 8:12 AM General Anubis has responded

Replies to this message:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2156 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 157 of 167 (498719)
02-13-2009 4:22 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by General Anubis
02-12-2009 6:21 PM


Re: One of the most pathetic lists I've ever seen
Also - the King James Version is quite notorious for its skewed interpretations using today's English applied to the English of that time. Your best bet will be New American Standard or New International Version. These have both been translated directly from the Hebrew/Greek texts using thousands of corroborating documents and translating meaning for meaning rather than word for word, to ensure a more accurate description of the original meaning.

More POOMAS. You are going to finish up with a very sore ass.


This message is a reply to:
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General Anubis
Junior Member (Idle past 3684 days)
Posts: 15
Joined: 02-12-2009


Message 158 of 167 (498743)
02-13-2009 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by dwise1
02-13-2009 1:19 AM


Re: Where does the Bible say that?
I suppose technically you don't have to believe the Bible is flawless (actually, there is 0.1% error from reading the English translations), and no the Bible doesn't specifically say that. However, the Bible does say that it is the Word of God, in which case you would have to call God a liar to not believe something in the Bible. That is quite blasphemous if I'm not mistaken, considering God cannot lie, and also considering He said He has put His Word above Himself, meaning He would be subject to a lie if the Bible were found false in some part of it. Also, if any part of the Bible were false, what guarantee is there that any part is true then?

Further, the only real requirement is obeying the Word of God, which the Bible does say this. However, obeying the Word of God requires knowing what that Word is, which is why it is necessary for the Bible to be true, or else we would have no guide to follow in order to please God.

In response to cave, 'evolution' in itself is a bit of a broad term, but if you believe in evolution to the extent of abiogenesis, then you are in direct opposition to the Bible. Furthermore, if you believe that man descended from another animal naturalistically, you completely degrade the purpose of man, and oppose the creation account. The only way someone can call themselves a Christian and believe in evolution is if they believe God created everything to begin with, set in motion the evolutionary chain for the animals, then created man separately. Beyond that requires either extreme ignorance to the Bible or evolution, one of the two.

Also, yes I dismiss YEC very quickly, because every piece of evidence uncovered by science destroys it, and the Bible does not support it (unless you use a garbage translation and refuse to take verses in context).

Edited by General Anubis, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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General Anubis
Junior Member (Idle past 3684 days)
Posts: 15
Joined: 02-12-2009


Message 159 of 167 (498744)
02-13-2009 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Nighttrain
02-13-2009 4:11 AM


Re: One of the most pathetic lists I've ever seen
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/bibleorg.html

Sorry, I was off by 0.4%, the actual number is 99.5%


This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Nighttrain, posted 02-13-2009 4:11 AM Nighttrain has not yet responded

  
General Anubis
Junior Member (Idle past 3684 days)
Posts: 15
Joined: 02-12-2009


Message 160 of 167 (498745)
02-13-2009 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by cavediver
02-12-2009 8:33 PM


Re: One of the most pathetic lists I've ever seen
Star cluster NGC 1981 makes up a portion of the lower half of the Orion constellation.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by cavediver, posted 02-12-2009 8:33 PM cavediver has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by cavediver, posted 02-13-2009 1:32 PM General Anubis has not yet responded

  
General Anubis
Junior Member (Idle past 3684 days)
Posts: 15
Joined: 02-12-2009


Message 161 of 167 (498746)
02-13-2009 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by bluegenes
02-13-2009 12:31 AM


Re: Man's Dominion
Yes... they are the chosen ones surely, since God sent His Son in the form of a bacterium to die for THEIR sins. [/sarcasm]

Even a basic understanding of the Bible makes it obvious that your argument is hopelessly flawed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by bluegenes, posted 02-13-2009 12:31 AM bluegenes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by bluegenes, posted 02-13-2009 1:29 PM General Anubis has not yet responded

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 639 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 162 of 167 (498749)
02-13-2009 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by General Anubis
02-13-2009 12:39 PM


Re: Man's Dominion
General writes:

Even a basic understanding of the Bible makes it obvious that your argument is hopelessly flawed.

But do you understand my argument, General? Here you have a book which you claim is the word of the creator of the universe and of life on this planet. In the section on the creation of life, the author/s omit the creatures that comprise most of the biosphere.

That would fit if the author/s were humans who did not know of the existence of these creatures, which are the base of all life on earth, but it does not fit a creator god who would know of their existence and of their central importance. If this god is supposed to be communicating to us, he would have told us about the creatures without which our bodies can't function, which shape the nature of the atmosphere we breath, and some of which can be lethal to us.

It's 1000 times more important than mentioning, for example, birds.

So, this is very strong evidence against the proposition that the Bible is the word of a creator god, and shows it to be (like all other books) a human work.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by General Anubis, posted 02-13-2009 12:39 PM General Anubis has not yet responded

cavediver
Member (Idle past 1805 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 163 of 167 (498750)
02-13-2009 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by General Anubis
02-13-2009 12:37 PM


Re: One of the most pathetic lists I've ever seen
Star cluster NGC 1981 makes up a portion of the lower half of the Orion constellation.

A "portion" ??? It's 25-30 arcminutes across :laugh: compared to Orion's body height of ~1000 arcminutes. It's a small splodge of stars just above M42 (the Orion Nebula) You really want to claim that God was refering to NGC 1981 when he used the term "Orion"? Just how desperate are you?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by General Anubis, posted 02-13-2009 12:37 PM General Anubis has not yet responded

Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5388
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 164 of 167 (498752)
02-13-2009 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by General Anubis
02-13-2009 12:31 PM


Re: Where does the Bible say that?
Also, if any part of the Bible were false, what guarantee is there that any part is true then?

You've got yourself a problem there, don't you, Jackal-Head-Guy? We've got pretty durn good evidence that many parts, not just "any part," of the Bible are false, so you inerrantists are rather in a bind, eh?


"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 15020
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 165 of 167 (498754)
02-13-2009 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by General Anubis
02-13-2009 12:31 PM


Re: Where does the Bible say that?
quote:

However, the Bible does say that it is the Word of God, in which case you would have to call God a liar to not believe something in the Bible.

No, it doesn't. So if there were something false in the Bible you'd be the one calling God a liar, by putting a falsehood into his mouth.

quote:

That is quite blasphemous if I'm not mistaken, considering God cannot lie...

Then I guess you've got yourself a big problem there.


This message is a reply to:
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