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Author Topic:   The Bible's Flat Earth
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 4 of 473 (498971)
02-15-2009 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Granny Magda
02-14-2009 1:28 PM


I find it interesting that, at least by Galileo's time, the educated churchmen had accepted a spherical Earth and already done their apologetics-shifting to show how the Bible agreed with them. Some of the Greeks had gone beyond flat-earth concepts in Classical times - Earth's shadow on the Moon during an eclipse, Ol' Whazisname measuring the diameter of the Earth with noontime shadows - but the word must not have made it to the authors of Enoch or Matthew.
I have never read enough Augustine or the like to know what their take on the issue was - and I don't know, either, whether the early Church Fathers read the Pythagorean round-earthers or not.
But I plan to learn some of that in this thread.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 8 of 473 (498997)
02-15-2009 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Engineer
02-15-2009 9:56 PM


The Hebrew word for circle is "chuwg" which refers to both circle and sphere:
Or it started meaning "sphere" after educated folks became aware that the Earth was one, and stuck that definition in. Mr Strong was comfortably in that time period.
And there is a Hebrew word for "ball," which you'll agree is often a sphere other than in football/rugby. Isaiah 22:18, if you're interested.
Edited by Coragyps, : add citation

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

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 Message 7 by Engineer, posted 02-15-2009 9:56 PM Engineer has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 17 of 473 (499062)
02-16-2009 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Engineer
02-16-2009 6:53 AM


Re: Round, Flat, Sphere, Curvlinear or what?
Well I gave you the reference, and there isn't a Hebrew word that distinguishes a sphere from a round (but flat) object.
So Frisbees and soccer balls were the same shape in old Jerusalem? I don't believe you, though I'm certainly no Hebrew scholar.
Isa 22:18 "He will surely violently turn and toss thee [like] a ball...." where "ball" is from h1754 duwr.
Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 41 of 473 (499257)
02-17-2009 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
02-17-2009 8:01 PM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
As has been cited, the Hebrew has a word for flat but not for sphere.
Bullcrap, Buz. It has been pointed out at least twice on this thread that ancient Hebrew had a word for "ball." A ball is most often a sphere, except in American football and rugby. And even if this term were absent from Isaiah, you would have no possible way of knowing that there wasn't some other word for "sphere" that just never got written into Scripture.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

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 Message 46 by Peg, posted 02-18-2009 4:20 AM Coragyps has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 48 of 473 (499298)
02-18-2009 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Peg
02-18-2009 4:20 AM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
so there are exceptions to the general rule then
What are you saying, Peg? That the ancient Hebrews knew the earth was shaped like a football but just wrote "circle" to mislead us? What the heck are you on about? Buz categorically said Hebrew had no word for "sphere." He's been shown to be wrong. "Ball" vey often is a synonym for "sphere."
Get over it.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
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 Message 73 by Peg, posted 02-19-2009 6:19 AM Coragyps has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 76 of 473 (499574)
02-19-2009 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Peg
02-19-2009 6:19 AM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
the word circle has been translated from a hebrew word that can also mean sphere...this is significant.
That would be significant if it were than an assertion. You have no more idea than I do whether "chwg" could mean "sphere" in 400 BC. You only have Strong's word for it - and he knew the Earth is a ball!

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Peg, posted 02-19-2009 6:19 AM Peg has replied

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 110 of 473 (499775)
02-20-2009 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Peg
02-20-2009 4:20 AM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
They wrote that Rabbits were chewers of the cud, something that has only recently been confirmed by the Smithsonian Institute
They wrote that the teeth have a layer of skin before the invention of the telescope
Oh dear! We are getting deep in the woo now.....
I want to see references for these asinine assertions, Peg.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Peg, posted 02-20-2009 4:20 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 135 of 473 (499903)
02-21-2009 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by Peg
02-21-2009 12:49 AM


If i tried to tell you that the word 'immovable' means 'flat' you would laugh at me.
Not as hard as I laughed when you told us that "immovable" means "whizzing around the Sun in a mildly chaotic orbit at 107,000 kilometers per hour." That is funnier.
Edited by Coragyps, : No reason given.
Edited by Coragyps, : not enough coffee yet

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Peg, posted 02-21-2009 12:49 AM Peg has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 149 of 473 (500002)
02-21-2009 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by ICANT
02-21-2009 9:40 PM


Re: Isaiah
Isaiah says in 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,"
The scripture no where says anything about the shape of the earth.
It is left as an exercise for the reader to decide whether these two quotes are harmonious.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

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 Message 147 by ICANT, posted 02-21-2009 9:40 PM ICANT has replied

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 151 of 473 (500004)
02-21-2009 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by thingamabob
02-21-2009 9:20 PM


Re: ball
But if Isaiah had said it was round like a ball he would have been wrong as the earth is not a sphere.
Nonsense. I'd be surprised if a discount-store basketball is even close to being as spherical as the Earth is - the polar diameter is 99.66% of the equatorial diameter for the planet. It's way too close to spherical for eyeball inspection to tell a difference.
But Earth doesn't look much like a frisbee.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 154 of 473 (500007)
02-21-2009 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by ICANT
02-21-2009 10:23 PM


Re: ball
But they are not the same therefore it is not a sphere.
Agreed. But more nearly a ball than a frisbee, right?
If I remember what I read it is supposed to become a sphere around 6013.
You 1) misremembered or 2) read some poor science fiction.

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 Message 153 by ICANT, posted 02-21-2009 10:23 PM ICANT has replied

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 189 of 473 (500189)
02-23-2009 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Black
02-23-2009 8:05 PM


Black, welcome aboard! Your avatar is creepier than mine!
Have you read this whole thread yet? Granny has answered many of your questions repeatedly already: you'd save her some typing if you would review what's already been said.
Edited by Coragyps, : No reason given.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

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 Message 187 by Black, posted 02-23-2009 8:05 PM Black has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 190 of 473 (500190)
02-23-2009 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Peg
02-23-2009 6:37 PM


Re: Storehouses
literally we do see war, famine, disease and death
Unlike in the last four millenia, when we didn't see any of those?[/OT snark]

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Peg, posted 02-23-2009 6:37 PM Peg has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 223 of 473 (500488)
02-26-2009 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by ICANT
02-26-2009 5:03 PM


Re: Re Flat Earth
The first heaven is where our Galaxy exists.
The second heaven is where our Galaxy and all the other Galaxies in the universe exist.
The third heaven is where God is on Hia throne, sitting on the circle of the earth.
ROFL. In the scale model I show grade-school kids, the Sun is a beach ball and the Earth a BB 155 feet away. Sirius, the nearest star visible fom Snyder, is 12,000 miles away. Our scale-model galaxy is, hmm, maybe 150,000,000 miles across - beyond the real Sun. The scale-model Andromeda Galaxy - the nearest big one - is out around the real Neptune. If your third heaven is "above" those other two, the Big Guy must have an odd-looking support for his throne. Very odd-looking.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 275 of 473 (501219)
03-05-2009 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by Peg
03-05-2009 6:26 AM


Re: Inspired Scripture and Error
[qs]If i said to you that "the earth has been an immovable part of the universe for a long long time", im sure you wouldnt assume i was trying to tell you that it was sitting motionless and idle or non rotating.;/qs
That's precisely what I would assume. Humpty-Dumpty to the contrary, I know, but words really do have meanings, Peg. And the meanings of the English word "immovable" all center around "not moving." And your verse from Psalms reinforces what granny has been saying for a couple of weeks now: the guys that wrote all that down believed that the earth stood still - "fixed" - in the middle of everything.

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 Message 274 by Peg, posted 03-05-2009 6:26 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
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