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Author Topic:   The Bible's Flat Earth
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 9 of 473 (499015)
02-16-2009 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Granny Magda
02-14-2009 1:28 PM


Hi GM,
i'd like to look at those scriptures in context
quote:
1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.

1 chronicles here is actually a song written by king David. Songs, like poetry do not need to use literal language. They can be descriptive and metaphorical. In verse 31 he says 'Let the heavens rejoice and let the earth be glad'
This just shows that it is not poetic language he is using and its not to be taken literally. The sky does not rejoice nor does the dirt of the earth.
quote:
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”
If you look at the rest of the verse it says 'he will judge the peoples with equity' So the full scripture is
'Say among the nations, 'The Lord reigns. The world is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity'
Once again the 'world' in this context is referring to the 'world of mankind' its the world of people who are immovable. This is obviously poetic language and is not a reference to the actual earth.
quote:
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Again its a song using poetic language. We've heard the term 'shaken to his core' when some gets a terrible shock...its expressive language being used and not literal.
quote:
Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”
another version reads in full
'For this is what the Lord says - he who created it the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited - he says: I am the Lord, and there is no other'
that doesnt sound anything like the way you've cut out the quote and applied an interpretation to. Its simply not an accurate way to explain this verse. By using just a small snippet of it, you can make it say whatever you like....but it doesnt say anything about the earth being unmovable, in fact its talking about God making the earth for the purpose of being inhabited.
GrannyMagda writes:
Peg has claimed that these passages refer to the Earth as being fixed in its orbit.
the earth is fixed in its orbit.
grannyMagda writes:
The cosmos of 1 Enoch is explicitly flat. This is important, because the book dates back to 300-100 BCE and was highly regarded enough to be quoted in the New Testament (Jude 14-15 quotes 1 Enoch 1:9). 1 Enoch’s depiction of a flat earth is in close agreement with the Bible’s Earth.
The book of Enoch is not considered an inspired book, it was never a part of the biblical cannon so using it in an argument against the bible is pointless. Its not part of the bible.
Aristotle taught that the sun, the moon, and the stars were attached to the surface of solid, transparent spheres and this was the belief in the 16th and 17th centuries when his teachings were the status quo.
Yet nearly 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is hanging 'upon nothing at Job 26:7. In the original Hebrew, the word for nothing is beli-mah” and literally means 'without anything'.
And as has been mentioned, Isaiah wrote that the earth was a sphere when the rest of the ancient world believed it was flat.
So does the bible really teach a flat earth? No, it was not influenced by the erroneous, flat-earth view prevalent when it was written. It was accurate and still is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Granny Magda, posted 02-14-2009 1:28 PM Granny Magda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by bluescat48, posted 02-16-2009 4:35 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 12 of 473 (499040)
02-16-2009 5:01 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by bluescat48
02-16-2009 4:35 AM


is the earth adrift in space?
or is there some other reason why we know exactly where the new year begins and when Haley's comet will return and when we can expect to see certain planets in certain parts of the sky at certain times of the year?
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by bluescat48, posted 02-16-2009 4:35 AM bluescat48 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Percy, posted 02-16-2009 7:57 AM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 24 of 473 (499126)
02-16-2009 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Granny Magda
02-16-2009 6:51 PM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
Granny Magda writes:
Take the statement Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.. This is clearly a statement in praise of God for his having fixed the earth in place. All it is saying is Isn’t God great? He fixed the earth in place!. It is a testament to God’s physical achievement in creating the immobile earth. Again and again the Bible makes reference to the foundations of the earth. By this, I propose, it means exactly what it says. The earth is fixed in place,upon solid foundations. It is immobile.
Are you ignoring the scripture that clearly states
'He is hanging the earth upon nothing' Job 22:14
If the earth is hung upon nothing, it certainly cannot also be 'fixed' upon something.
You are placing an interpretation on something that is clearly not there.
when we first saw pictures of the earth from space, it IS a circle we see
and from an earthly perspective, when you look up at the sky, it IS a dome that we see.
Does not the Atmosphere act as a dome?
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Granny Magda, posted 02-16-2009 6:51 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Granny Magda, posted 02-16-2009 9:24 PM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 26 of 473 (499137)
02-16-2009 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Granny Magda
02-16-2009 9:24 PM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
What's the big deal anyway? The Bible is wrong about lots of things. This is just one of them. It's no biggie. Just accept it and move on.
yet it still doesnt say the earth is flat
find a verse that calls it flat...you cant because its not there.
People have used the colorful language of the bible as a means of claiming that it says things that it quite obviously does not say.
Its interpretation and nothing more.
the book of Job said the earth was hanging upon nothing...unlike other beliefs at the time that it was attached to something solid.
Isiaha clearly stated that it was circular. The Hebrew word he used was 'chugh' In hebrew it can also mean sphere which is why some translators chose 'globe' and 'round' in this verse...thats in the Douay Version and Moffatt bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Granny Magda, posted 02-16-2009 9:24 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by shalamabobbi, posted 02-16-2009 10:11 PM Peg has replied
 Message 28 by Theodoric, posted 02-16-2009 10:26 PM Peg has replied
 Message 31 by Granny Magda, posted 02-17-2009 6:52 AM Peg has replied
 Message 35 by Kapyong, posted 02-17-2009 5:12 PM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 29 of 473 (499184)
02-17-2009 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by shalamabobbi
02-16-2009 10:11 PM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
yeah i did look at that site
im certainly not convinced that any of the scriptures they use to back up their claims can be read the way they are reading them
i actually doubt that these people are serious...surely its some sort of joke
it certainly makes me laugh

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by shalamabobbi, posted 02-16-2009 10:11 PM shalamabobbi has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by shalamabobbi, posted 02-17-2009 7:29 AM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 30 of 473 (499185)
02-17-2009 3:16 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Theodoric
02-16-2009 10:26 PM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
Theodoric writes:
GM has provided dozens of references that show the writers thought of the earth as flat.
GM is simply repeating what the 'flat earth society' are claiming...its nothing more then their interpretation.
I've pointed out that the hebrew word for circle is the same for sphere
i've shown the full context of the scriptures GM used in her initial post...the context itself was enough to disprove the claim that the writers were talking about a flat earth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Theodoric, posted 02-16-2009 10:26 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Granny Magda, posted 02-17-2009 7:01 AM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 45 of 473 (499285)
02-18-2009 4:19 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Granny Magda
02-17-2009 6:52 AM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
You are relying on a couple of passing references for your case for a spherical Earth Bible. I have a far greater number of flat Earth texts, many of them far more explicit. I am afraid that it is you who is stretching the evidence.
and the verses you used have been taken out of context...using just a part of the verse will detract from the meaning
I can make the bible say 'there is no God' by doing the same thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Granny Magda, posted 02-17-2009 6:52 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Granny Magda, posted 02-18-2009 8:00 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 61 by shalamabobbi, posted 02-18-2009 1:44 PM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 46 of 473 (499286)
02-18-2009 4:20 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Coragyps
02-17-2009 9:31 PM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
Coragyps writes:
Bullcrap, Buz. It has been pointed out at least twice on this thread that ancient Hebrew had a word for "ball." A ball is most often a sphere, except in American football and rugby.
so there are exceptions to the general rule then

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Coragyps, posted 02-17-2009 9:31 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Coragyps, posted 02-18-2009 7:56 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 72 of 473 (499538)
02-19-2009 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Granny Magda
02-18-2009 7:51 AM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
GrannyMagda writes:
In every instance the literal interpretation is that these foundations are actual, solid foundations, as here;
but should we put a literal interpretation to words that may simply be descriptive?
if I told you that 'Time Fly's' would you assume i meant that literally?
im sure you wouldnt. Why must it be assumed that every verse in the bible is to be interpreted literally?
When Solomon wrote about a womans breasts as being like mountains, should we take that literally?
or when it speaks of 'the waters are a garment covering the earth'
or when it says that 'the sky is a tent'
or the people are 'waves of the sea'
so much is simply descriptive language, its unfair to take a few of these verses and say the bible is wrong because scientifically the sea is not a 'garment' and breasts are not 'mountains' and the sky is not a 'tent' and people are not a part of the ocean

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Granny Magda, posted 02-18-2009 7:51 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Granny Magda, posted 02-20-2009 8:55 AM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 73 of 473 (499540)
02-19-2009 6:19 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Coragyps
02-18-2009 7:56 AM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
Coragyps writes:
What are you saying, Peg? That the ancient Hebrews knew the earth was shaped like a football but just wrote "circle" to mislead us? What the heck are you on about? Buz categorically said Hebrew had no word for "sphere." He's been shown to be wrong. "Ball" vey often is a synonym for "sphere."
Get over it.
get over what?
the word circle has been translated from a hebrew word that can also mean sphere...this is significant. Just becuase the english translator chose to use the word 'circle' does not mean the writer intended for us think he mean 'flat'
it just means the translator chose to use circle... and as the understanding of ancient hebrew has increased, so have modern translators been adaptable and more accurate in their translations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Coragyps, posted 02-18-2009 7:56 AM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Coragyps, posted 02-19-2009 8:53 AM Peg has replied
 Message 78 by kuresu, posted 02-19-2009 1:45 PM Peg has replied
 Message 79 by shalamabobbi, posted 02-19-2009 1:58 PM Peg has replied
 Message 80 by Kapyong, posted 02-19-2009 4:54 PM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 74 of 473 (499541)
02-19-2009 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Straggler
02-18-2009 7:28 PM


Re: Definition: Corner
Straggler writes:
So did any of the authors of the bible actually know that the Earth was spherical or not?
LOL sorry but i gotta laugh
pages of debate and its all just words on a page
Take it from GM that the bible teach's a flat earth and be done with it. Anyone who doesnt agree is wrong anyway.
[insert smiley face here]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Straggler, posted 02-18-2009 7:28 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Chiroptera, posted 02-19-2009 12:58 PM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 81 of 473 (499661)
02-19-2009 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Coragyps
02-19-2009 8:53 AM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
Coragyps writes:
That would be significant if it were than an assertion. You have no more idea than I do whether "chwg" could mean "sphere" in 400 BC. You only have Strong's word for it - and he knew the Earth is a ball!
a spherical object appears as a circle from every angle...there is nothing incorrect about calling it a circle.
besides, it was the english translator who used the word circle...the hebrew writer used the word chugh and that word can mean both
circle does not mean flat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Coragyps, posted 02-19-2009 8:53 AM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by DrJones*, posted 02-19-2009 6:06 PM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 82 of 473 (499662)
02-19-2009 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by kuresu
02-19-2009 1:45 PM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
Kuresu writes:
A circle, in case there is any confusion, is:
quote:a simple shape of Euclidean geometry consisting of those points in a plane which are the same distance from a given point called the center.
you mean like this one
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by kuresu, posted 02-19-2009 1:45 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by kuresu, posted 02-19-2009 5:46 PM Peg has replied
 Message 89 by Chiroptera, posted 02-19-2009 6:20 PM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 84 of 473 (499669)
02-19-2009 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by shalamabobbi
02-19-2009 1:58 PM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
shalamabobbi writes:
The Hebrew word for circle is chuwg and has a primary meaning of circle (no lexicons I have read give the primary or secondary meaning as sphere).
When you trace back the lexicology of the word chuwg, you see that it is derived from a larger Hebrew word which means ‘a circle as drawn from a compass’.
Davidson’s Analytical Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon says that 'sphere' can be applied to the word chugh

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by shalamabobbi, posted 02-19-2009 1:58 PM shalamabobbi has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4948 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 85 of 473 (499672)
02-19-2009 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Kapyong
02-19-2009 4:54 PM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
Kapyong writes:
The bible DOES use the word for SPHERE when describing a ball.
Will you ever address this point, Peg?
yes i will
what is the hebrew word for ball and where in the scriptures is it used?
cheers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Kapyong, posted 02-19-2009 4:54 PM Kapyong has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Kapyong, posted 02-19-2009 6:31 PM Peg has replied

  
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