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Evolution guided by god? Or a natural process?

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Author Topic:   Evolution guided by god? Or a natural process?
Fosdick 
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Message 3 of 44 (499115)
02-16-2009 7:19 PM 		Reply to: Message 1 by inge1990
02-16-2009 2:56 PM

Darwin's "Creator"
inge1990, maybe this quote has legs for your assignment:
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There is grandeur in this view of life with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, while this planet has gone circling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.
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Charles Darwin, 1859 (the last sentence of The Origins of Species).
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I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.
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Fosdick 
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Posts: 1793
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Message 14 of 44 (499207)
02-17-2009 10:52 AM 		Reply to: Message 7 by Modulous
02-16-2009 7:57 PM

What teleology?
"Modulous" writes:
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It is a minor point, but for accuracy it should be be pointed out that the quote you gave is not from 1859, but from 1860 (ie., the second edition). The 1859 quote is
quote:
There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.
You are correct in the sequence of editions of The Origin of Species, wherein "the Creator" was left out of the first edition but included in the second. The question is: Why?
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I think the answer is revealing: In the beginning there was no Creator, but he had to be retro-fitted to the job to sell more books.
​
I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.
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Fosdick 
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Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
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Message 16 of 44 (499211)
02-17-2009 11:41 AM 		Reply to: Message 5 by Rahvin
02-16-2009 7:46 PM

Clarification
Rahvin writes:
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Evolution is driven by mutation and genetic drift guided by natural selection.
Let's give inge1990 something better than that for his assignment. Firstly, mutation and drift do not "drive" evolution as if there is a force behind them; they merely make more adaptive options possible when environmental conditions change. Secondly, you need to include gene flow and sexual selection on your list of things that add to a population's adaptability. Thirdly, natural selection does not "guide" anything; it is simply an occurrence of differential reproductive success among individuals of a population.
​
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I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.
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Fosdick 
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Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
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Message 17 of 44 (499212)
02-17-2009 11:53 AM 		Reply to: Message 15 by Modulous
02-17-2009 11:35 AM

Re: Darwin's creator
Modulous writes:
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...All taken from the first edition.
Thanks for the Darwin lesson; you're very astute. And it should help inge1990, too, with his assignment. In fact, the quotes seem to be right on the mark in that regard. (If the Creator was important enough to be mentioned The Origin of Species, maybe He has something to do with evolution after all.)
​
I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.
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Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5521 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006

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Message 22 of 44 (499223)
02-17-2009 1:23 PM 		Reply to: Message 18 by Dr Adequate
02-17-2009 12:11 PM

Re: Darwin's creator
Dr Adequate writes:
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...That is, he's suggesting that God would set up the laws of Nature such that evolution would work without the necessity for divine intervention.
Yes, I see your point. But maybe Darwin meant that the Creator also created the automatic button on the evolution machine.
​
I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.
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