The Bible's Flat Earth

You are misrepresenting my argument.

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yet it still doesnt say the earth is flat
find a verse that calls it flat...you cant because its not there.

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I never said it was. I do not claim that the Bible explicitly describes the Earth as flat and if you were paying attention, you would know that. My claim is that it implies a flat Earth. My claim is that a great many passages make it clear that the authors presupposed a flat Earth. They had no need to state this explicitly, since everyone of the day believed in a flat Earth. They had no need to state the obvious.You are the one who is making the claim that these Bronze Age Hebrews knew that the Earth was a sphere, at a time when everyone else believed in a flat Earth. You are making the extraordinary claim, not me.

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People have used the colorful language of the bible as a means of claiming that it says things that it quite obviously does not say.

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Its interpretation and nothing more.

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Of course. When the Bible is clearly wrong, it is "colourful language". When it can just about maintain plausible deniability, it is the literal truth. The fact is that interpreting "fixed" and "immobile" to mean "moving" is a far greater stretch when it comes to interpretation.Perhaps you would care to interpret this; End of the heavens? How exactly should one interpret this, except to say that it means the... er... end of the heavens? The fact that we are aware that the heavens have no end does not imply that the author of this psalm knew it.

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the book of Job said the earth was hanging upon nothing...unlike other beliefs at the time that it was attached to something solid.

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One reference. Against about a dozen references to foundations or pillars, including ones from Job (Job 9:6 and 38:4-6). Which is it Peg? If the Bible is a unified work, which promotes a spherical Earth throughout, why does it mention these foundations so frequently? Why did it not strike the authors as being misleading (which it most certainly is)? Why did they not make more explicit reference to the earth's sphericity? Why should we assume that the foundation/pillar verses are the metaphorical ones? Why should the "hangs upon nothing" reference not be the metaphor?In any case, I have already demonstrated that the concept of "hanging upon nothing" is entirely consistent with flat Earth cosmology. 1 Enoch describes "an empty place" above and below the earth. This is clearly consistent with Job's "empty place". Enoch also mentions the foundations of the Earth by the way. He apparently saw them first hand!

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Isiaha clearly stated that it was circular. The Hebrew word he used was 'chugh' In hebrew it can also mean sphere...

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You have neither demonstrated that it can mean "sphere" nor, more importantly, provided any evidence that it does mean "sphere". As I have said ad nauseum, circularity is entirely consistent with the picture of the flat earth that is presented both in the canonical Bible and, more clearly, in 1 Enoch.

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which is why some translators chose 'globe' and 'round' in this verse...thats in the Douay Version and Moffatt bible.

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Since these translations were made long after the knowledge of the Earth's sphericity was commonplace amongst educated folk, I can only say... well, they would say that, wouldn't they? Just because the Douay-Rheims has "globe" does not mean that it is correct. Where is the evidence that chuwg, in this case, means "globe"? Oh, and round doesn't mean spherical. A disc is round. Moffatt won't help you out there.You are relying on a couple of passing references for your case for a spherical Earth Bible. I have a far greater number of flat Earth texts, many of them far more explicit. I am afraid that it is you who is stretching the evidence.Mutate and Survive

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

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GM is simply repeating what the 'flat earth society' are claiming...its nothing more then their interpretation.

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Actually, I am in agreement with many modern Bible scholars and I am not basing my argument upon Flat Earth Society material. Apart from anything else, their flat Earth differs from the Bible's.

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I've pointed out that the hebrew word for circle is the same for sphere

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And you have failed to point out why we should suppose that the intent was "sphere" and not "circle".

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i've shown the full context of the scriptures GM used in her initial post...the context itself was enough to disprove the claim that the writers were talking about a flat earth

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You are getting mixed up. The quotes you mentioned dealt with the Earth's immovability, not it's flatness. Try to keep up. Also, I have already answered your claims of context and you have chosen to ignore my reply. Please either address that reply or stop repeating yourself.Mutate and Survive

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

hi Peg,
It's a pleasure to read Job in the present economy..That's Job 26:7 btw (not 22:14)
What would your argument have been if you had been born 500 years ago? You don't perceive the irony here?A question for you then about your view. If the scriptures you quote are correctly interpreted to whom were they written? Ancient people would have been confused and have failed to understand what was being said. If they were written for our age, do you imagine the purpose was to empower creationists to win debates on forums such as these?
Is that the purpose Job had in mind??

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Job 26:1 But Job answered and said,

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I think Job is replying to his buddies here in a 'forum debate' of his own prior to the invention of the internet.
The context issues here go beyond lexical reinterpretation.

I should point out that, if I recall correctly, the Old Testament as we know it took form during and after the Babylonian exile, which is about the same time as the earliest indications that the Greeks knew the earth was spherical. So it is entirely possible that the true authors, editors, and redactors of the Old Testament knew that the earth was a sphere.However, it's pretty clear to me that the language used in the Old Testament refer to a flat earth, not a sphere. I don't know enough to state whether this is mere poetical device, or whether the authors really believed that the earth was flat.

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Speaking personally, I find few things more awesome than contemplating this vast and majestic process of evolution, the ebb and flow of successive biotas through geological time. Creationists and others who cannot for ideological or religious reasons accept the fact of evolution miss out a great deal, and are left with a claustrophobic little universe in which nothing happens and nothing changes.
-- M. Alan Kazlev

Gday, Find a verse that calls it a sphere ...you can't because it's not there.Kapyong

1. Well, it certainly doesn't imply the sort of foundations that you have been calling for, Granny. It's implication is that those foundations are as we have been advocating, i.e. a planet foundational in orbit.2. How did the East, South, North and West become established? The Middle East is established. Why was the Middle East not the Middle West? Because something or someone established these directional corners of the earth. The Middle East is cornered/established/located in just one area of the earth. That's all that word/term corner is referring to in the Bible. In context of the other scriptures, that is what makes sense.That term, corner is used in the commodity market, for example. It does not mean the market has physical corners, but that one has a given market under one's control in one's portfolio. Again, don't require more of the scriptures more than is required in other areas of terminologies.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

As has been cited, the Hebrew has a word for flat but not for sphere. Circle, meaning circle or sphere is the term used relative to the earth. The context is what determines whether it is a circle or a sphere. Of course, God, who inspired the wording, knew the earth was a sphere.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Indeed. With the hindsight of centuries of scientific progress and knowledge the interpretation is indeed the only one that "makes sense".But why would anyone interpret in this way without the benefit of such knowledge and hindsight?As always reality is what reality is and biblical interpretation limps along in the wake of scientific progress claiming that this scientific knowledge could have been known all along if we had just interpteted the bible in the "right" way.The "right" way that can only be known once we know what is actually correct.

Are you implying that they referred to the Middle East as the Middle East in classical times?
This whole line of argument seems laughable.As for corners, I don't know the original text, but I would find it hard to believe that the original has the same dual meanings as corner does in English.Can any of the bible experts help out on the word for corner in the original?Edited by Theodoric, : Misread post

Young's Literal Translation uses the term

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from the ends of the earth

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I would read that as more indicative of a flat earth mindset than the word corner. Also, this would not agree with your interpretation of corner.

Bullcrap, Buz. It has been pointed out at least twice on this thread that ancient Hebrew had a word for "ball." A ball is most often a sphere, except in American football and rugby. And even if this term were absent from Isaiah, you would have no possible way of knowing that there wasn't some other word for "sphere" that just never got written into Scripture.

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"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

hi Theodoric,Kanaph - means extremity.Numbers 15:38 borders (of garments)
Ezekiel 7:2 four corners (of the earth)
Isaiah 11:12 four corners
Job 37:3 ends (of the earth)
Job 38:13 ends

I'm confused. Does Buzsaw normally completely ignore replies to his posts, or am I some sort of unusual case?

So buzz's interpretation of what is meant really doesn't seem to fit what the literal meaning of the word is.I cannot see extremity meaning cornered/established or located. It seems obvious that it means the extremity, the outer limits. Thus reinforcing GM's point.In times like this is always best to go to the most original text we can find. Not to rely on someones interpretation of what was meant.

and the verses you used have been taken out of context...using just a part of the verse will detract from the meaningI can make the bible say 'there is no God' by doing the same thing.