How did Monkeys get to South America?

(1) rubber duckshttp://rubaduck.com/...s-200302-duckies_around_the_world.htm

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The ducks take three years to circle around, East from the drop site to Alaska, then all the way West and South to Japan before turning back North and East, passing the original drop site and again landing in North America. Some ducks are even found in Hawaii. The National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has worked out that the ducks travel approximately 50% faster than the water in the current.

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So for a good average speed you can figure the great circle route.It also looks like the surface travels faster than the main current or the ducks (and hence rafters) are assisted by prevailing winds -- looks like you can double your speed estimates for rafts.(2) Steve Callahan, Adrift: Seventy-six Days Lost at Sea:Amazon.com

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Steven Callahan"s dramatic tale of survival at sea was on the New York Times bestseller list for more than thirty-six weeks. In some ways the model for the new wave of adventure books, Adrift is an undeniable seafaring classic, a riveting firsthand account by the only man known to have survived more than a month alone at sea, fighting for his life in an inflatable raft after his small sloop capsized only six days out. "Utterly absorbing" (Newsweek), Adrift is a must-have for any adventure library.

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His sailboat sank so fast he was not able to provision the raft or even grab navigation gear. What provisions he had were soon gone, and he was left with his wits for 3-1/2 months.http://www.inspirationline.com/EZINE/27SEP2004.htm

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But the thing that caught my eye was how he managed to keep himself going when all hope seemed lost, when there seemed no point in continuing the struggle, when he was suffering greatly, when his life raft was punctured and after more than a week struggling with his weak body to fix it, it was still leaking air and wearing him out to keep pumping it up. He was starved. He was desperately dehydrated. He was thoroughly exhausted. Giving up would have seemed the only sane option.

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I remember reading about it when he was rescued. So yes, primates can survive drifting on rafts for a long time.Enjoy.Edited by RAZD, : format

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The first google hit I got on rafts of vegetation was Charles Sutherland Elton's "The Ecology of Invasions by Animals and Plants", which states that "a green monkey was noticed on floating timber near Java in 1883".

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Please provide your link, It doesn't come up at all on my search engine.That's pretty unusual. A 3 foot alligator was spotted in the mountains of North Carolina. Either way of getting there is totally ridiculous. Somebody put it there obviously:http://www2.brevard.edu/reynoljh/fbgator.htm Also dead shark was found in Lake Michigan:MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos

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Where do green monkeys come from? Sub-Saharan Africa. And Java, of course, is in Indonesia.

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It probably was from africa, but wouldn't last more than about 10 days without fresh water.

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I think an actual observation trumps an argument from incredulity.

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It would take several monkeys without any competitors to establish a new population. This would take several trans-atlantic rafting expeditions before one of them finally succeeded in establishing a population.I think the most likely way of crossing and surviving would be on a tossock floating island:Floating island - Wikipedia It would take a big rain storm or a tidal wave to remove one of these from a swamp. Either could potentially tear it apart.Edited by Engineer, : requested link on green monkey

ok I found the link about Charles Sutherland Elton after a google search. The same link says the monkeys got to South America probably by island hopping.

I've been on the Indian ocean when it was pouring with rain at least three times that I can remember.The distance from the east coast of Africa to Java is greater than the distance from the west coast to South America, incidentally. A pair of mammals is sufficient, as I pointed out further up the thread.http://www.sciencedaily.com/...ases/2007/06/070620154911.htmPlacental mammals tend to do well when arriving on continents with only marsupial mammals, so there are no great problems preventing them from founding a population.The strongest evidence for the event is the fact that they are there. All we're doing on this thread is pointing out that it's perfectly feasible in the face of your irrational incredulity.

My island hopping theory was original.

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Always wanting to hear other peoples opinions about God and evolution. Email me.

They are in South America, so it happened.As has been stated in previous posts we will never know exactly how, but that they are there is evidence it happened. Your incredulity does not make it not a fact.

See my previous post about "fresh water". "Without any competitors"? But of course.We're trying to figure out how monkeys arrived in a continent without any monkeys.The first monkeys to get to South America had no competitors in the business of being monkeys. Again, yes. Of course.Surely most monkeys cast out to sea on rafts of vegetation or pumice rafts must die. We concede the point.But there are millions of years for this to happen again and again, and the monkeys only have to be lucky once.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

That's the money quote, Engineer. Luck wins this one over prosimian navigational skills.

At least this has been interesting.Most stuff on EvC is just the same old stupid boring crap that was refuted 100 years agoThis topic has at least made us all think and do a little research. Pumice islands? Really? Vegetation rafts more than a mile in extent? Wow. Green monkeys off the coast of Indonesia? Well I didn't know that.To speak for myself, I've found out stuff that I didn't know by participating in this discussion, so it's been fun.I have made a post like this before, but I think it was more than a year ago ... we really don't get interesting questions that often.So I should like to thank Engineer.

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But there are millions of years for this to happen again and again, and the monkeys only have to be lucky once.

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Other sources say it takes more than once because there were natural competitors in south america at the time. The time period surmised is about 35 million years ago.There are other threads on the internet that have already covered this debate. At 35 million years the separation between continents was about 1400 km.

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They are in South America, so it happened.

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As has been stated in previous posts we will never know exactly how, but that they are there is evidence it happened. Your incredulity does not make it not a fact.

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Some evolution experts think the raft from africa borders on ridiculous. The so-called "millions of years of rafting opportunity" never existed unless monkeys found a time machine. I like my flying monkey idea better than that. Perhaps you should be debating your views on this evolution forum:Cryptozoology.comHere's an opening post from someone considerably more expert than you are:

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The ancestry of New World monkeys is uncertain due to a low abundance of fossil material, as well as limitations based continental drift.

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South America broke off of the African mainland, and over the course of millions of years, migrated to its present position. This separation between South America and Africa occurred over 100 million years ago. This is much earlier than the first primate fossils currently known on either continent.

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Thus, there are several possible scenarios for the ancestry of New World primates -- based on our current knowledge:

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a) African anthropoids found some way to cross the Atlantic, and radiated into new habitats upon reaching South America. (The anatomical differences and difficulty in accomplishing the crossing make this scenerio unlikely).

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b) African anthropoids emerged earlier than fossils suggest, and rafted across the Atlantic when the distance between continents was much less. (Much more likely than the above, but the fossil records doesn't support this theory at present).

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c) Asian Species crossed into North American over the Bering Land Bridge as did hominins. (Possible, but the time frame here doesn't support the diversity of traits and species nor does it explain why some monkey species didn't adapt and survive into modern times on the North America continent -- other than in Central America).

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d) North American primate forms originated here gave rise to the current New World species. (As I said before, many scientists have EXPECTED to eventually find evidence of early primates here. This is why Dr. Bloch's discovery is likely to make many waves in primatology when his findings are revealed to the scientific literature).

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e) Early primates existed on both the African and South American continents (when they were conjoined) and the continental drift that separated the species also resulted in divergent evolution on both continents. (This theory is not very likely -- since it would nearly double the current primate emergence date of 54 million years ago -- but fossils yet to be found could prove me, and a lot of others, wrong).

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f) primates also evolved independently on the South American Continent. I've not heard this proposed in the scientific community, but if it happened on the North American continent -- why not there as well? (Of course, the fossil record at this point doesn't support this notion at present).

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Edited by Engineer, : No reason given.Edited by Engineer, : No reason given.Edited by Engineer, : added additional hypotheses

Ok maybe you don't understand this forum. This is under
Miscellaneous Topics in Creation/Evolution this is not cryptozoology.Do you know what Cryptozoology is? Cryptozoology the study of evidence tending to substantiate the existence of, or the search for, creatures whose reported existence is unproved, as the Abominable Snowman or the Loch Ness monster.So to call this an evolution forum seems to not only a stretch but total misrepresentation.These are probably potential scenarios. I have never claimed to be an expert, but also have no reason to believe these are experts either.
I can tell you that as of right now the scientific evidence points toward the rafting hypothesis. If someone else publishes something and goes through the peer reviewed process to change that, well that would be science in action.If you read further on that forum you would have seen where someone mentions this Cryptozoology really? Wow!!!Edited by Theodoric, : spelling

Here's a recent press release:http://www.sciencedaily.com/...ases/2005/03/050329134437.htmA lot of African animals came from North America. The raft went the other way. ;-)

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Cryptozoology really? Wow!!!

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a Science Daily peer reviewed article. I guess you aren't interested in science. Oh well back to flying monkeys for you.Edited by Engineer, : No reason given.Edited by Engineer, : No reason given.

Interesting hypothesis. Amazing how science works, but I do not see anything definitive.It is a viable hypothesis. But what does this say about your belief that that the raft theory is implausible.