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Member (Idle past 863 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Which Version of the Bible is the Word of God? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: At the time Josephus was writing the Temple had been destroyed. There wouldn't have been anything left there. And we know that Christians quoted from Greek translations, not from any "original" texts.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4956 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
At the time Josephus was writing the Temple had been destroyed. the temple was destroyed in 70CE by the romans... Josephus reports that it was completely burned to the ground and the artifacts inside were carried off by Roman soldiers as booty so there were scrolls there before this time....these would be the scrolls that Jesus read from when he did his public readings...there is also evidence that the greek septuagaint version was in use because the Apostle Paul evidently uses this version in many of his quotes in his writings but not all.... this is evidence that more then that translation was in use at the time. a portion of Isiah was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls written in a pre-Masoretic Hebrew script and has been dated toward the end of the second century B.C.E. so these early scrolls were obviously in use in Jesus day.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: So your assertion that Josephus was writing about scrolls kept at the Temple was false.
quote: Really ? Where is your evidence that Jesus ever obtained a scroll from the Temple ?
quote: I think that you'll find that all early Christian writers used the Septuagint. You do realise that the Septuagint differs from the Masoretic text - and not just as a result of the translation ?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4956 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
PaulK writes: So your assertion that Josephus was writing about scrolls kept at the Temple was false. not at all the scrolls were housed there for centuries before the place was destroyed in 70ce
PaulK writes: Really ? Where is your evidence that Jesus ever obtained a scroll from the Temple ? In the Jewish synagogues there was a public reading of a portion of the Law on the Sabbath and they still do this today.It was Jesus custom to do this just as all other male jews did it. Luke 4:16'And he came to Naz′areth, where he had been reared; and, according to his custom on the sabbath day, he entered into the synagogue, and he stood up to read. 17So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed him...' Obviously scrolls were available for public readings...otherwise they would not have had public readings.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: That doesn't mean that they were still there AFTER 70ce, when Josephus was writing.Don't you think that the fact that the Temple was a burnt-out ruin makes it an unlikely place to keep valuable scrolls ? quote: The scrolls used today don't come from the Temple. As far as I know they are usually kept at the synagogue in question. What makes you think that it was any different in Jesus' day ?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4956 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
PaulK writes: That doesn't mean that they were still there AFTER 70ce, when Josephus was writing.Don't you think that the fact that the Temple was a burnt-out ruin makes it an unlikely place to keep valuable scrolls ? i dont beleive i ever said that they were there after. we are talking about Jesus day which was up to 33 CE... that is before 70ce and biblical scrolls were not only kept at jerusalem, they had synagogues all over the place... i dont know what your point is
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Wrong. We are talking about the time when Josephus wrote the work in question, That is AFTER 70CE.
quote: My point is that there is no reason to believe your assertion that Jesus read from a scroll taken from the Temple.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4956 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
why dont you ask the jews
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I have a better idea. Why don't you just admit that you were wrong. Josephus was not talking about scrolls stored at the Temple, because he was speaking of the situation as it was at the time he wrote - and the Temple had been destroyed by then (your OWN date for the time of writing is c100CE). It is highly unlikely that Jesus read from a scroll held at the Temple - and nothing in the Bible says that he ever did.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4956 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
PaulK writes: Josephus was not talking about scrolls stored at the Temple, because he was speaking of the situation as it was at the time he wrote - and the Temple had been destroyed by then (your OWN date for the time of writing is c100CE). It is highly unlikely that Jesus read from a scroll held at the Temple - and nothing in the Bible says that he ever did. You do understand what a historian isyou know that historians write history here is a link, where you can read his writings
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/ I quote a scripture earlier that records that Jesus had the custom of reading aloud at the temple on the sabbath look into some jewish sites, you'll see they still do this today.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Josephus was not just a historian. Now if you want to provide more of the quote to support your claim then please go ahead. But don't expect me to look through all Jospehus work to try to find evidence that you should have provided in the first place.
quote: No you didn't. It had him reading aloud in a synagogue, not the Temple. Instead of making up excuse after excuse to try to pretend you are right why don't you just make the effort to get things right in the first place ?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4956 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
PaulK writes: No you didn't. It had him reading aloud in a synagogue, not the Temple. Instead of making up excuse after excuse to try to pretend you are right why don't you just make the effort to get things right in the first place ? my apologies on that one, your right, it was at Nazareth that the scripture i quoted was in reference to while the bible may be inerrant, i certainly am not
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
The Bible is not inerrant and you're not even nearly inerrant - even though you constantly give the impresion that you think that you are.
Now do you intended to support your claims about Josephus ? Or are you taking the attitude all-too-typical of creationists that you must be right unless proven wrong (even though you have no evidence for your assertion whatsoever).
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Peg Member (Idle past 4956 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
In Against Apion Book 1 "I SUPPOSE that by my books of the Antiquity of the Jews, most excellent Epaphroditus, have made it evident to those who peruse them, that our Jewish nation is of very great antiquity...
"For we have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, disagreeing from and contradicting one another, [as the Greeks have,] but only twenty-two books, (8) which contain the records of all the past times; which are justly believed to be divine; and of them five belong to Moses, which contain his laws and the traditions of the origin of mankind till his death" He is talking about the scrolls of the Hebrew scriptures located at the city where he lived, Jerusalem. "And this is our practice not only in Judea, but wheresoever any body of men of our nation do live; and even there an exact catalogue of our priests' marriages is kept; I mean at Egypt and at Babylon, or in any other place of the rest of the habitable earth, whithersoever our priests are scattered; for they send to Jerusalem the ancient names of their parents in writing" this shows that the jews kept records and those records were sent to jerusalem and administered by the priests In book 6 of War of the jews he reports that Titus gave the command to 'burn and to plunder the city' and that the soldiers 'set fire to the repository of the archives ...and to the council house... ' if you want more evidence for the records & sacred writings of the jews being housed at the temple, use that link and read Josephus's writings.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 863 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
PaulK writes: Josephus was not just a historian. As we both know, he was also a turncoat and traitor of the first rank. For the edification of the reader, from wiki:
quote: Considering his personal history, count me among the ranks of the above. This guy was no Thucydides, more like using Benedict Arnold as an 'unbiased' source on the American Revolution. Edited by anglagard, : subtitle Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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