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Author Topic:   Expectations For The New Obama Democrat Government
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 162 of 341 (488812)
11-17-2008 10:40 PM


Obama's First Act To Aid Global Terror
President Elect Obama has reiterated his promise to close Gitmo and that this would be one of his first priorities.
This just lends support my contention that Obama will work to advance Islam, undercut the war against Jihad and as his militant and totalitarian Muslim supporters around the world consider to be the case.
Closing the base at Gitmo serves no purpose but to consolidate the ruthless Communist regime on that Island and to advance global Jihad terror. It figures in with Obama's close associates in his past which is both socialist and Islam.
Interestingly, the Islamic militant nations surrounding Israel who vowed to drive the Jews into the sea in the 1967 six day war, were armed by Communist powers; in particular, the then powerful Soviet Union.
Edited by Buzsaw, : Clarify statement.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by RAZD, posted 11-17-2008 11:08 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 164 by DrJones*, posted 11-17-2008 11:46 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 165 by anglagard, posted 11-18-2008 2:31 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 166 by Huntard, posted 11-18-2008 7:13 AM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 168 of 341 (488826)
11-18-2008 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by Huntard
11-18-2008 7:13 AM


Re: Obama's First Act To Aid Global Terror
Huntard writes:
So, am I correct in understanding you WANT people to be tortured and kept in jail without a trial?
If you consider water boarding, interrogation of terrorist Jihadists by a woman, non-life threatening deprivation of meals on occasions of interrogation and lowering cell temperatures to non-life threatening degrees for the purpose of obtaining intelligence info so as to protect the US from folks like these who's goal is to destroy America and other civilizations by terror as torture, yes I Do WAMT these people to be tortured and kept in jail without trial. That's why these folks are out of our nation; so we won't have to provide them with clever and expensive lawyers who know how to get them released into our population.
Many, if not most of these people left at Gitmo are too dangerous to even release back into their own nations. Furthermore their nations don't want them back.
Hunter and friends here, what do you advocate as an alternative to Gitmo for these folks who, like the Islamics who flew innocent citizens of America into the world's two tallest buildings full of innocent Americans for the sole purpose of killing as many of us Americans as possible? Hmmm??
Hunter writes:
You do realize I could take your words and show them to other people and claim americans are evil because of all the stuff you are saying, don't you?
Oh, like show them to the Tsunami victims of Indonesia, the earthquake victims, famine millions of Africa, the oppressed women of pre-invasion Afghanistan under ruthless Tali-ban Shari-ah law, etc, etc who have been rescued by the benevolence of evil Americans?
Hunter writes:
Oh, and just to be clear, I won't do that, because I know there are MANY americans who disagree with you.
I'm sure there are, like Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, the Nation of Islam black supremacists, and folks like you who just don't get what evil is.
Hunter writes:
Because closing an illegal detainment centre is just that, isn't it.
Perhaps you would like to open a new topic on Gitmo and itemize precisely what is illegal about it and why it has been allowed to exist for the purpose of protecting you and me all of these terror-free years during the Bush Admin since 9/11.
Hunter writes:
Lucky for us then the base stays open. Oh, and when was the last time the us actually did ANYTHING for the "poor people of Cuba" by acting through their base there?
Perhaps you can apprise us all as to how Gitmo has hurt the "poor people" of Cuba who their ruthless government have oppressed and who are denied relief from America because their government forbids it.
Perhaps also you can tell us all what the host of Cubans who have fled to America to enjoy the good life here due to policies like Gitmo which keeps them safe and keeps Cuba's Communist ruthless totalitarianism at bay from expansion into the US where these Cubans now live in relative prosperity, think of Gitmo.
Hunter writes:
Which are , of course, figments of your imagination. And socialism ISN'T a bad thing, when will you get that fact? Neither is Islam, by the way.
So the Soviet Socialist Republic of the last century who murdered millions of their own citizens and the Islamic Jihadist doctrine advocated exclusively by Mohammed's Islam religion are good things? Is that what you want to replace American capitalism and government by representation of the republic/people?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Huntard, posted 11-18-2008 7:13 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by cavediver, posted 11-18-2008 9:24 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 170 by Huntard, posted 11-18-2008 10:35 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 171 by Jazzns, posted 11-18-2008 11:04 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 177 by fallacycop, posted 11-18-2008 12:37 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 172 of 341 (488835)
11-18-2008 11:23 AM


Be Mindful, My Friends
Be mindful that we're not dealing with US citizens but international terrorists who have no legal rights until we should be so stupid as to bring them to our nation's courts, allowing them all of the rights of American citizens. These are suicidal time bombs waiting for the opportunity to do the most destruction and genocide possible by expending their very lives.
Be mindful that water boarding is not considered lethal and would only be under very extreme application which out nation has no history of practicing.
Be mindful that to close down Gitmo would be a boon to the terrorists and a grave danger to America and the rest of the world. Extreme measures would not be out of order in order to obtain valuable information from these people.
Be mindful that the detainees at Gitmo are, relative to the way Islamist nations treat their captured, treated extremely well; well fed and allowed to practice their religion in prison, something a Christian would be killed for in any Islamic prison.
Be mindful that we have released all who are not the worst of the worse and the most deadly enemies of life.
Be mindful that these are not official legitimiate army prisoners of war covered under the Geneva prisoner guidelines.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by kuresu, posted 11-18-2008 11:47 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 175 by Huntard, posted 11-18-2008 12:03 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 178 by Straggler, posted 11-18-2008 1:37 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 183 by RAZD, posted 11-18-2008 6:46 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 179 of 341 (488855)
11-18-2008 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Straggler
11-18-2008 1:37 PM


Re: Be Mindful, My Friends
Straggler writes:
Buz with no evidence and no trial of any sort how many of these prisoners are completely innocent?
10%? 30%? 50%? 80%? 90%? How many do you think?
Likely 99.9%. Out of all of the thousands who are considered dangerous having been encountered in this global war on terror there are a scanty few of the most dangerous at Gitmo. That's a given.
What percentage of all the prisoners that have been, or still are detained at Guantanamo, have actually been found guilty of anything at all? How many have revealed anything useful?
They have no trials. If they've been shown to be dangerous that's where they are safely detained. In the past when these types are turned over to their own governments they end up escaping or released to kill our troops and others. This has worked very effectively. So long as the allies of these detainees know Gitmo exists it remains a deterant for them to get in trouble and end up there. With no Gitmo, the global terrorists know they can get better treatment in the US courts etc or even be released.
Whatever number of dangerous terrorists is essential to continue protecting America's mainland that's how many and how long they should stay their.
How is this total disregard for international law and innocent victims along with an "all means are justified by the ends" attitude really any different from the level of morality demonstrated by terrorists.
As I stated Geneva guidelines for conventional warfare does not apply. These are not innocent victims.
Why should we be so concerned about the welfare of these terrorists when our troops are risking their lives and giving up their home comforts to kill these types over there. These folks at Gitmo are lucky Americans have them. Russia or any of their Islamic rivals would lop their heads off and be done with them after they tortured the life out of them to get confessions or info.
The way you (mostly younger Americans think is scarey. If you people had your way, our freedoms would be totally gone a long time ago. America's younger generations are setting us all up for what happened in Europe last century.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Straggler, posted 11-18-2008 1:37 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by kuresu, posted 11-18-2008 5:35 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 181 by Straggler, posted 11-18-2008 5:36 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 182 by Huntard, posted 11-18-2008 5:50 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 186 by anglagard, posted 11-19-2008 2:22 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 225 of 341 (489273)
11-25-2008 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Fosdick
11-23-2008 1:37 PM


Re: Will BHO decriminalize marijuana?
Fosdick writes:
Decriminalizing marijuana, I should think. The War On Drugs can continue, but he would do the states a big favor by decriminalizing pot.
Fosdick I'm 73 and well remember the days in the US when pot users were few and far between, usually illegal or transient Mexicans, bums and the lowest class non-productive citizens. Problematic drug abuse was quite efficiently dealt with.
As well, the Islamic, pagan and Eastern nations where pot was widely used were the poorest of the third worlders.
No, what we need is to get serious with the war on drugs, mind the borders and win that war. Dull potheads are irrational and often dangerous, too often problematic to any culture of civilization.
Abe: It wouldn't surprise me if Obama is still a pot smoker and that he would work to legalize it in the US.
Edited by Buzsaw, : As noted

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Fosdick, posted 11-23-2008 1:37 PM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Fosdick, posted 11-25-2008 7:56 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 229 by onifre, posted 11-25-2008 8:49 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 230 by Huntard, posted 11-26-2008 3:40 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 226 of 341 (489275)
11-25-2008 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by AnswersInGenitals
11-18-2008 11:38 PM


Re: A health care system to die for!
AIG, I was four years in the US Air Force back in the early 1950s. Healthcare was a benefit which one signed onto when risking one's life for the common defense. It was in the package. My basic traing monthly checks were $78 back then and even counting health benefits, promotions being hard to come by back then, we earned every bit of what was in the deal. It was not socialized medicine any more than a health benefit package in government or private package today.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 11-18-2008 11:38 PM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Rrhain, posted 11-27-2008 11:49 AM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 236 of 341 (489409)
11-26-2008 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by kuresu
11-26-2008 4:20 PM


IRe: Will BHO decriminalize marijuana?
Kuresu, you be a foreigner? That figures. I hear Boulder, Co and the Netherlands have a lot of notorious radical commonality.
Perhaps Obama be good for either of your countries, fitting right in, pot and all.
But for Americanism kind of Americans, na.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by kuresu, posted 11-26-2008 4:20 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by kuresu, posted 11-26-2008 9:14 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 241 by bluescat48, posted 11-26-2008 10:12 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 245 by Huntard, posted 11-27-2008 1:42 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 237 of 341 (489413)
11-26-2008 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by DrJones*
11-26-2008 5:09 PM


Re: Gates & Stealth
DrJones writes:
Obama is not a republican, this move obviously exposes Gates as a double secret stealth muslim who has weaseled his way into the job in order to hand over the US and Israel to the muslim hordes.
Obama's lack of qualification and experience to be President behooves him to keep the military from mutiny and have qualified holdovers stay to keep the government going and to placate roughly 50% of us Americans who believe Obama is bad for America.
As I've said all along he's very intelligent and knows how to deceive. He will make the prominent heads look good to about everyone but will undermine the government with his types in the courts, in the Pentagon and in the underlying government bureacracies.
(I'm visiting relatives and don't have spell check, so until I get to my own computer, bear with my spelling. )

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by DrJones*, posted 11-26-2008 5:09 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 11-26-2008 8:44 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 239 by DrJones*, posted 11-26-2008 9:04 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 242 by Jazzns, posted 11-26-2008 10:23 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 243 of 341 (489422)
11-26-2008 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by kuresu
11-26-2008 9:14 PM


Re: IRe: Will BHO decriminalize marijuana?
kuresu writes:
For that matter, I'm probably more centrist than you might realize
Thanks for the clarification, Kuresu. I wondered how it was with Boulder and the state at large. Having grown up in Wyoming, I wondered how Colorado could be so much different.
Being relatively centrist, did you vote for Obama? What do you think of him? Are any of my concerns about him warranted, IYO?
I've come to have some respect for your intelligence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by kuresu, posted 11-26-2008 9:14 PM kuresu has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 249 of 341 (489482)
11-27-2008 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Rrhain
11-27-2008 11:49 AM


Re: Socialized Medicine
Socialized medicine is government mandated and taxpayer financed restrctively dispensed on all citizens whether they want it or not. It eliminates alternative options and empowers government to dictate such things as imunizations, choice of practitioners and type of treatments etc.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Rrhain, posted 11-27-2008 11:49 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by kuresu, posted 11-27-2008 6:08 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 251 by Straggler, posted 11-27-2008 6:31 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 256 by Rrhain, posted 11-29-2008 5:01 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 259 of 341 (489777)
11-29-2008 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by kuresu
11-27-2008 6:08 PM


Re: Socialized Medicine
kuresu writes:
........ Unless you mean alt. medicine, which more often than not is kooky. I know your history with it, and you're convinced that doctors scam us for the profit motive. Take away the profit motive, no reason to scam us.
By the way, health insurance effectively eliminates choice as it is because getting treatment out-of-network is generally prohibitively expensive.
I choose not to be one of the millions of victims of drug side effects ranging from psychological complications to heart attacks to physical death. I raised my family on alternatives which usually have only good side effects and which keep us healthy and relatively free from illness. There are wonderful alternative safe remedies for just about all illness symptoms.
If my wife and I were utilizing alternatives as we did for ourselves and our children under socialized medicine, we would likely have our children taken from us for refusing conventional methodology which we we deemed dangerous. When we raised our children we refused immunization for them and got by. When symptoms of any illness arose we knew exactly how to treat it by diet, detoxifying, Colin cleanse, etc. We had no family doctor and still don't for ourselves.
If accidents arise, conventional procedure can be good and needful.
Well, since all doctors would be part of the system, this isn't too much of a concern, now is it?
That's the crux. Doctors would be required to do conventional to be covered by the system. Alternative doctors and practitioners would be outlawed by the system. Whereas I'm convinced by my own experience and others that holistic natural is the way to go I cannot accept government mandated health care.
Well, health insurance already does this by refusing to cover certain treatments, so again, you're fighting the wrong battle.
But under socialized medicine I would be required to pay my share of a system which I oppose and would not use. I would have double jeopardy by having to finance the government big bucks thing and my own alternative thing.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by kuresu, posted 11-27-2008 6:08 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by kuresu, posted 11-30-2008 4:52 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 261 by DrJones*, posted 11-30-2008 5:08 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 263 of 341 (489918)
11-30-2008 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by kuresu
11-30-2008 4:52 AM


Re: Socialized Medicine
kuresu writes:
You're lucky. Many families who refuse immunizations aren't. Tell me, how do you cure meningitis with diet, a colon cleanse, and detoxification? How do you cure lung cancer? Prostate cancer?
This isn't the thread to go into it but the ailments you mention are successfully treated with better results than with conventional medicine. Cures are being effected regularly but holistic practitioners and health care providers are not allowed to refer to their methodologies or product remedies as cures. They are obliged to tell the diseased one to consult their medical doctor. Thus you don't hear about all that is being done by alternative methodology.
Under the oppression of socialized medicine via a president Obama, our freedom to apply safe and effective unconventional alternative health care would be limited further.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by kuresu, posted 11-30-2008 4:52 AM kuresu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by subbie, posted 11-30-2008 10:01 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 265 by Rahvin, posted 12-01-2008 1:38 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 266 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-01-2008 3:03 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 267 by Straggler, posted 12-01-2008 4:00 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 270 by Modulous, posted 12-01-2008 5:17 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 273 by cavediver, posted 12-02-2008 9:32 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 284 of 341 (500170)
02-23-2009 6:40 PM


Topic Update
It appears that we need to get the focus back on the OP list as follows. I've placed a dash on the ones which I see as on track as per the policies of the president and his cabinet. There's a question mark on a couple which are likely but questionable.
Perhaps in the space we have left, members would cite items on the list which you particularly wish to address. It's easy to get off topic if we go too in depth into any one of the items.
Buzsaw OP Statement writes:
-1. Forced unionism.
-2. Socialized medicine.
-3. Weaker smaller military.
-4. Paramilitary civilian government controlled services required upon every young person.
-5. So called (miss called) Fairness Doctrine essentially eliminating right wing talk shows in the media, highly expanding what is regarded as hate speech.
-6. Increased Jihadist terrorism by terrorists who supported the Obama presidency.
-7. Further undermining of the sovereignty of Israel.
-8. Increased energy costs.
?9. Excessive high coal standards which will essentially put the coal mines out of business.
?10. Expansion of the EPA's influence to the point of more dependence of foreign energy.
-11. Severe depression as the result of regulation and high taxes on business and the well to do who provide the jobs as they choose to close up rather than to comply.
-12. Expansion of regulations on businesses.
-13. Wider open boarders and expansion of rights etc to illegal aliens.
-14. Highly expansion of UN powers over nations and diminishment of sovereignty of nations.
-15. Billions of American $$ more committed to UN welfare for third world nations, including oppressive governments.
-16. Reduction of freedom of religion via the Fairness Doctrine and other government regulations.
-17. Totally leftist Supreme Court and circuit courts etc which essentially permanently embeds America into socialism and the leftist agenda relative to all aspects of life.
-18. Expansion of anti-gun laws.
-19. Phenomenal expansion of Federal government power/control and diminishment of state and local government control.
IN SHORT, THE END OF THE AMERICAN DREAM AND THE AMERICAN WAY.
YES, NATION OF ISLAM'S, JEHADIST'S, COMMUNIST PARTY'S, FORCED UNIONISM'S, UN'S, CHAVEZ'S CANDIDATE AND THE CANDIDATE OF MOST OF AMERICA'S OTHER ENEMIES, BARRACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, "WILL CHANGE AMERICA," AS PROMISED.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-23-2009 7:41 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 287 by kuresu, posted 02-24-2009 3:29 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 292 by Chiroptera, posted 02-24-2009 10:24 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 286 of 341 (500195)
02-23-2009 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Dr Adequate
02-23-2009 7:41 PM


Re: Topic Update
DA writes:
I'm glad that I don't have to live in your imagination.
Is that all you have to contribute, DA? Bare personal assertion? How about something substantive on one or more of the items listed?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-23-2009 7:41 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 314 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-26-2009 1:03 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 290 of 341 (500263)
02-24-2009 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by DrJones*
02-24-2009 4:09 AM


Re: Topic Update
DJ writes:
What I don't understand is why Buz thinks Israel needs the US for protection? Aren't the Jews the chosen people of Buz's mythological diety, is he too impotent to protect one small country?
God knew that the (yet in unbelief) Jews would need the US and Britain to defeat the enemies of his messianic people and to be a factor in fulfillment of the return of Jews to their land and the latter day messianic nation of Israel, particularly the US.
Thus the blessings of God upon the US as the most prosperous and blessed nation in all history. God's promise to Abraham, granddaddy of the Jews, was that those who bless Israel would receive God's blessings and those nations which cursed Israel would be cursed of God. Check out the historical record and go figure.
Genesis 12:3:
....and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
Another classic example of fulfilled prophecy.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by DrJones*, posted 02-24-2009 4:09 AM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by DrJones*, posted 02-24-2009 2:57 PM Buzsaw has not replied

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