Evolution would've given us infrared eyesight

Hi Buz,Incredible that after all your time here you still don't understand how evolution works.What you're looking for with the 25 die is an analogy with evolution. If you insist on a scenario that requires that one die is thrown once and must come up 6 otherwise you lose and there's no point throwing the next die, then that isn't analogous to evolution.If you insist on a scenario that requires throwing all 25 die at once and requiring them all to come up 6, then that isn't analogous to evolution, either. Evolution proceeds in small steps of a mutation here, then a few generations later a mutation there. Large numbers of simultaneous mutations causing macro evolution in a single generation is not evolution, it's a miracle.Let's say there's a population of finches that reproduces for generation after generation until one finch experiences a mutation that gives it a longer beak that gives it a survival/reproduction advantage. That's equivalent to throwing one die over and over and over again until it comes up 6.The mutation is passed on offspring who pass it on to their offspring who pass it on to their offspring and so on and on (equivalent to throwing the next die many times but it never comes up 6), until in one generation a descendant experiences a mutation that gives it an even longer beak that gives it an even greater survival/reproduction advantage. That's equivalent to many throws of the next die until it comes up 6.You're approach seems to be this: "If you can't explain something to me clearly enough for me to understand it, then you're wrong." Which is, of course, ridiculous. In other words, the only thing you're proving here is that after all these years, you still don't understand how evolution works, and so you're still offering nonsensical disproofs.--Percy

Even you must know this isn't true. Are you saying that evolution was different in principle for early life? If that's what you're saying, can you describe for us how it was different? Please don't waste everyone's time and make things up off the top of your head again - research and think through your answer this time.--Percy

Hi Buz,The roll of a die is the random component. It represents a random mutation, which is the most fundamental cause of descent with modification.Keeping any die that comes up 6 is the non-random component. This represents selection, which is life interacting with its environment to either reproduce, or not.Since evolution is descent with modification combined with natural selection, the dice analogy is an effective analogy for evolution.However, I don't think this is an effective analogy for you, and I don't think there's any analogy that would work for you. You seem baffled by the fact that, just like the dice analogy, evolution has both a random and a non-random component. We should probably find another way of making evolution clear for you, but one doesn't come to mind just now.I wonder if the problem for you in understanding evolution is that every time you get close to grasping it you realize that it makes sense and would work, and since you know in your heart that evolution is impossible you conclude that that interpretation must be wrong, and you then continue your search for an interpretation of evolution that has obvious problems. And every time you do that everyone tells you the same thing: you don't understand evolution.There's no point criticizing an erroneous interpretation of evolution that no scientist accepts. You're pounding on the wrong nail.--Percy

Topic overlap is fine, topic jumping is not. In this case the topic is in danger of jumping from infrared eyesight to information theory and evolution in general, as we see here your Message 226: If you can tie this into the infrared eyesight topic, fine, but if not then pursuing this really belongs in another thread.--Percy

Concerning information I can suggest two threads:

• Adding information to the genome.
• Evolving New Information

--Percy

If you hover over the link to any message or thread it will tell you the thread ID. I want to make message, thread and forum IDs easy to use, but haven't figured out how to do it without putting ID numbers all over the place. For now I've compromised by putting message numbers with the messages.--Percy

Hi Brad H,This is a direct quote from you in Message 239: There were several suggestions of more apropos topics, for example see Message 240 and Message 243.I was already a participant in this thread when you joined, but if necessary I'll recuse myself from further participation and switch to my moderator role.--Percy (aka Admin)