Not Influenced by Surrounding Nations

I propose this topic in response to Granny Magna who insisted that the Hebrews and their writings (OT) were influenced by the surrounding nations. (See Msg 226 of the Bibles Flat Earth thread in the Accuracy and Inerrency forum.)I would like to offer evidence to the contrary and prove that their beliefs and teachings were not influenced by the nations around them.(As this is centered around the Old Testament writings, i would ask that Apocryphal books are not included in any responses. The Apocrypha books were not part of the Old Testament and as it is the Old Testament teachings that are being discussed, the apocryphal writings are not applicable here.)
________________________________________________________________MEDICALOne of the oldest Egyption medical texts available is the Ebers Papyrus , which is a compilation of practices, dating about 1550B.C.E.
It has 700 remedies for various afflictions, some of them were extremely dangerous. For the treatment of a wound, one of the prescriptions recommended applying a mixture of human excrement to open wounds.while the egyptions were using their own excrement as a wound salve the Mosaic Law demanded sanitary regulations that required excrement be buried away from people. Deuteronomy 23:13
This is significant because Moses was raised in Egypt and was educated in the finest Egyptian schools yet his words show that excrement was to be viewed as something unclean not to be touched'The Hebrews practiced quarantining & sanitization Lev13.2 'In case a man develops in the skin of his flesh an eruption or a scab or a blotch ...he must then be brought to Aaron the priest ... the priest must look at it, and he must declare him unclean...the priest must then quarantine the plague seven days. 5And the priest must look at him on the seventh day, and if in the way it looks the plague has stopped, the plague has not spread in the skin, the priest must also quarantine him another seven days...'6And the priest must look at him on the seventh day the second time, and if the plague has grown dull and the plague has not spread in the skin, the priest must also pronounce him clean. It was a scab. And he must wash his garments and be clean.The babylonians to the contrary placed their sick in public for all to come and see

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'They have no physicians, but when a man is ill, they lay him in the public square, and the passers-by come up to him, and if they have ever had his disease themselves or have known any one who has suffered from it, they give him advice...'

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Under the Mosaic Law the dead body was viewed as making those touching it unclean for a seven-day period. If someone was in a house or tent where a death occurred, as well as the dwelling itself and all open vessels, they were made unclean. They had to wash everything.This was unlike the egyptions who would spend over 1 month embalming the dead Egyption emablming customs] the process of emabalming was a high contact sport...they certainly did not mind touching dead bodies.Its only been since the 19th century that doctors began using sanitation as a way to control disease. Actually [has been recently voted the worlds number 1 medical advancement] of our time...perhaps of all time. Not that moses knew that, but the law he practiced was given to him by God who Did know these important things whereas the nations around them were in the dark with regard to such matters.__________________________________________________________________EARTH AND COSMOLOGYGREEK Hesiod, who wrote his Theogony in the eighth centuryB.C.E. explains how the gods and the world began. He starts off with Gaea, or Gaia (Earth), gave birth to Uranus (Heaven). First Uranus was supreme, but he suppressed his children, and Gaia encouraged his son Cronos to castrate him. Cronos in turn devoured his own children, until his wife Rhea gave him a stone to eat in place of Zeus; the child Zeus was brought up in Crete, compelled his father to disgorge his siblings, and with them and other aid defeated Cronos and his Titans and cast them down into Tartarus. Sumerian belief was similar and likely influenced the Greeks. They believed in a succession of gods, and the goddess Nammu who is called "the mother, who gave birth to heaven and earth" Chinese folk religion states (213-191BCE)that Chaos was like a hen’s egg. Neither Heaven nor Earth existed. From the egg P’an-ku was born, while of its heavy elements Earth was made and Sky from the light elements. P’an-ku is represented as a dwarf, clad in a bearskin or a cloak of leaves. For 18,000 years the distance between Earth and Sky grew daily by ten feet, and P’an-ku grew at the same rate so that his body filled the gap. When he died, different parts of his body became various natural elements. ... His body fleas became the human race.Genesis 1:1 simply states that 'In the beginning God created the Heaven and Earth' Genesis described the 2 luminaries (Sun & Moon) that caused the Light and Dark at Gen. 1:14-18 Egyptian cosmology said the universe is a rectangular box, placed in a north-south position, like Egypt. The earth is located on the bottom, as a slightly concave plain with Egypt in the center. ... At the four cardinal points very high peaks hold up the sky. The sky is a metallic cover, flat or curving outward, pierced with holes. From it hang stars, like lamps hanging on cables.Some believed that the earth was supported by four elephants standing on a big sea turtle. Aristotle, a Greek philosopher and scientist of the fourth centuryB.C.E., taught that the heavenly bodies were fixed to the surface of solid, transparent spheresThe bible described the Creator as 'hanging the earth upon nothing', and in the eighth centuryB.C.E., it spoke of 'the circle of the earth' which indicated a round or circular object as opposed to any other shape. (Job 26:7; Isa. 40:22)______________________________________________________________ANATOMY & PHYSIOLOGYAncient Egypt belief was that Mankind was created from the tears of the god Ra. the goddess of moisture gave birth to Geb and Nut, the earth god and the sky goddess. And so the physical universe was created. Men were created from Ra's tears.
Gen. 2:7 says that the Almighty Creator created man from the dust from the ground and blew into his nostrils the breath of life.' Egyptionking married his own sister occasionally his own daughter to preserve the purity of the royal blood.The Law given Israel after they had left Egypt forbade incestuous marriage, saying, 'The way the land of Egypt does ... you must not do' Le 18:6‘YOU people must not come near, any man of YOU, to any close fleshly relative of his to lay bare nakedness...'_____________________________________________________________________
AFTERLIFE BELIEFS OF EGYPTIONS, GREEKS, ROMANSAncientS believed that the deceased had need of food and clothing after death. Maps and eyes were painted on Egyptian wooden coffins to guide the departed. Tools and personal effects, such as jewelry, were also left on the assumption that the dead would be glad to have them in an afterlife.The Greeks and the Romans believed that the dead needed to be ferried across the Styx, the principal river of the underworld. This service was performed by Charon, a demonic boatman. He was paid for his services by a coin placed in the mouth of the deceased, a practice that continues to this day in many parts of the world.Many nations were convinced of an afterlife but the bible clearly stated at that death is the end of life.
Eccl 9:5'...the dead are conscious of nothing at all'

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Ezekiel 18:4 '...the soul that is sinning, it itself will die'

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Eccl 3:19 'For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast...All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.' ________________________________________________________________GODHere is an interesting quote from No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.isi.org/books/content/396chap1.pdf][A Student’s Guide to Natural Science Page 20]

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'When Genesis says that
the sun and moon are merely lamps placed by God in
the heavens to light the day and night, it is attacking the
pagan religions that worshipped the sun and moon. When
it says that man is made in the image of God and is to
exercise dominion over the animals, Genesis is, among
other things, attacking the paganism in which men worshipped
and bowed down to animals or to gods made in
the image of animals.

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It is recognized that many ancient religions are based on the natural world where the elements and nature are gods, this is called polyotheism.
Hinduism has many thousands of such gods, Egypt had the sun god, the moon god the crocodile god, the god of the nile river etc etc etcThis is in stark contrast to the hebrew religion which was based on one single almighty Creator God known in the OT as Yahweh or Jehovah.
The were not influenced in the slightest in believing that there were any other gods besides this one God.
This explains why the Mosaic law stipulates that 'You must not have any other gods against my face' and 'You must not make carved images/idols and be induced to serve them'______________________________________________________________All these examples show that the bible is contrary to what the popular opinions were of the time.I have presented only a few examples I would be interested to see examples of where the Hebrews were influenced by the beliefs of the nations around them...or any more examples that anyone might like to add. Edited by Peg, : adding urlsEdited by Peg, : No reason given.Edited by Peg, : No reason given.Edited by Peg, : separated subjectsEdited by Peg, : No reason given.

i've put the urls inbut i've used the quote box's to separate the subjects as opposed to quoting another source...should i change that? is there a better way to divide the post up so each subject is clearly marked???actually i'll separate with *********************************** instead.

I hate long posts and i hate making long postsI hope this suffices...its probably too long and winded but i've looked at the following examples and tried to break them up so they are easily identified.Medical - compares the Egyption & Babylonian practicesEarth & Cosmology - compares other creation accounts & the shape of the earth.Anatomy & Physilogy looks at mankind, & Egyption customs of incestAfterlife Beliefs showing other nations believed in life after death whereas the bible writers had no such beliefs...i've only mentioned a few scriptures, there are more that i can cite if needed.Gods - monotheistic religions were abundant in the days of the hebrews...they were not monotheistic though.

i dont think it sounds at all like that.Hesiod's account presents each element of the universe as a god, night is a god, day is a god, the earth was a god, the sky was a god etc etcthe Hebrew account of creation is an account of 1 God creating all things in a controlled and calculated way. How is that similar???My source does not 'fib' lolthere are multiple translations of the Hesiod creation account and they all have slightly different wording. Its called paraphrasing.Wiki puts it like this 'Chaos arose spontaneously. 'Chaos gives birth to Eros[4] and Gaia (Earth), the more orderly and safe foundation that would serve as a home for the gods and mortals, came afterwards...' WikiSource

this is true, not only elijah but all the writers. this verse from Isiah shows how the Hebrew writers viewed the gods of the nations around them.

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Isiah 44:15'And it has become [something] for man to keep a fire burning. So he takes part of it that he may warm himself...He also works on a god to which he may bow down. He has made it into a carved image, and he prostrates himself to it... He prostrates himself to it and bows down and prays to it and says: "Deliver me, for you are my god".

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Jerimiah 10:14'Every man has behaved so unreasoningly as not to know. Every metalworker will certainly feel shame because of the carved image; for his molten image is a falsehood, and there is no spirit in them. 15They are vanity, a work of mockery.'

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Habakkuk 2:18'Of what benefit has a carved image been, when the former of it has carved it, a molten statue, and an instructor in falsehood? when the former of its form has trusted in it, to the extent of making valueless gods that are speechless?'

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Psalm 115:4Their idols are silver and gold,
The work of the hands of earthling man.
5A mouth they have, but they cannot speak;
Eyes they have, but they cannot see;
6Ears they have, but they cannot hear.
A nose they have, but they cannot smell.
7Hands are theirs, but they cannot feel.
Feet are theirs, but they cannot walk;
They utter no sound with their throat.
8Those making them will become just like them,
All those who are trusting in them.

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The christian view of Idols was that it amounted to the worship of demons.

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'This is the reason, my dear brothers, why you must keep clear of idolatry. ... You cannot take your share at the table of the Lord and at the table of demons.'1Cor. 10:14,

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1Cor 10:19-21, ...'I say that the things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God; and I do not want YOU to become sharers with the demons...'

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Acts 17:29'... we ought not to imagine that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, like something sculptured by the art and contrivance of man...'

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Yahweh is a personal name but Elohim is a title and is translated 'God' as is El-shaddai which means "God of the mountains," (according to wiki) and so is Allah..its a title and if you ask a muslim the name of their god, it doesnt have a name , they only know him as Allah.Zoroastrian was a good pick up... i didnt know a lot about them so i had a dig around. They were the principle religion of ancient Babylon which was a city full of various gods. I looked at some of their beliefs and there is a huge difference in beliefs about life and death and creation etc... so i really cannot see any connection between them. The Zoroastrians believe in the immortal soul so that in itself is a huge divergence of belief. [quote=caffeine]Also, an injunction against worshipping other gods doesn't necessarily mean the religion is monotheistic. Many ancient cultures worshipped their own god without doubting the existence of foreign gods. It's entirely possible the early laws were not 'don't worship fictional gods', but 'don't worship other gods like that Ba'al chap - I'm your god.'[/qs]i must say , its pretty clear in the laws that they were not to worship other gods and they only had 1 Almight God who was the 'only living God'this and the scriptures i just quoted about Idols shows that the writers beleived that no other gods were in existence. Sure people worshiped other gods, but these gods were 'false' and without life... they believed the worship of such images were a waste of time becasue they did not believe the god was alive.

i dont deny that some of the population got involved with the religions around them, the bible is full of examples of such... but as this discussion is on the bible 'writers' then all the evidence suggests that they were not influenced by other nations.the writers of the OT always had the same stand no matter what time period they lived in and no matter how many of the population were involved in idol worship. they always stood opposed to it. In this way the 'bible' was not influenced by the religions around. of course there are other gods....it doesnt mean they are the Almighty Creator though.
The Almighty Creator is God of the bible and of the Hebrews and Christians. The other nations worshiped gods that they had devised for themselves. Hence why the bible calls them 'false' gods.You may have noticed the capitalisation of 'God' in the bible along with the many occurrences of the non capitalised 'god'...wherever you see it capitalised, its referring to the Almighty, where ever its not, its referring to a false god.

yep, i dont deny there were other gods. Marduk Baal Ra... the list is endless.
But the Hebrews did not worship any other god besides Jehovah. Its evidenced by the writings that he was single ruling God.

I dont agree that it resembles the genesis account. sorry, i cant see the link here either. Its generally used in a figurative sense and is applied to Gods enimies as can be seen in Ezekiel 29:...Here I am against you, O Phar′aoh, king of Egypt, the great sea monster lying stretched out in the midst of his Nile canals..'Enuma Elish and the Lights is not at all similar to genesis. Genesis simply calls it what it is, a luminary whereas Enuma Elish says the moon was a creature as if it was an animate object.In the creation of man with The Epic of Atrahasis may seem similar but they are still quite different.The loss of innocence had nothing to do with sex in genesis. Actually Adam & Eve didnt have sex until they had left the garden of eden so to try and link sin with sex is a bit ignorant of the account which clearly showed that the serpent tempted Eve to 'become like God' ... it had nothing to do with sex and the serpent is in no way a phallic symbol.Eternal Life this is an assumption. Just because the epic of gilgamesh mentions a plant of life, does not mean that the genesis account is a copy of it or was influenced by it. Perhaps the epic of gilgamesh is influenced by the original story which had been written down. There is evidence that Adam himself wrote an account of the events of his life...this is how Moses was able to write about Adams decendants, his children, Cain & Able...the things Eve said and did etc. Moses said he wrote from a 'book of the history of Adam'I'll say the same for the flood account. Most nations have a flood account. Lets say the flood really did happen, then its likely that when the sons of Seth spread out in the earth, they took that story with them...as it happens over time the story changes and after thousands of years we have some very different versions of the story, but the same story nonetheless.Yes I agree that some of the laws as similar. Justice is a fairly consistent concept...if someone does something bad to someone, they must pay compensation in order to balance the scales of justice. So its not strange to find similarities there. Once again, the writers position was one of condemnation for such pagan worship. In many instances the Hebrews were punished with death for such practices because it was NOT a part of their religion. The Queen of the Heavens were not a god in co-existence with Yahweh...according to the bible it was just another false god.You see, thats the differnce with the OT. It doesnt write about these gods as if they were real...it writes about them as if they were fake. So the writers of the OT did not adhere to the religious practices of the nations around them even if some of the people did. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

its because as i said, the reference to a 'sea monster' in the bible at that verse is metaphorically speaking about Egypt. Gods enemy nations were likened to such creatures because of their aggression and disposition to God and his people. The marduk account does not make a connection to any nation but to an actual sea monster therefore they are not the same.and about the genesis account, if even you knew it to be disputable, why use it? I didnt have to go into any great detail about why I could not see a connection because you already concluded that the similarity was disputable. have a look closely at the verse...notice it says 'Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters...'this is a reference to the crossing of the Red Sea by the Isrealites and the destruction the of the ensuing Egyption army. The prophet Ezekiel also references Egypt as a sea monster which was the scripture i quoted before.this is the thing with the bible and metaphors... to understand 1 scripture, you must look at several others, for they work together to reveal the answers. yes i can agree with that, both accounts say a particular God/god created the moon.but let me just say that if the genesis account was influenced by the Enuma account, its quite a divergence in terms of what the moon actually is. It goes from being a creature to being an animate object. Seems that the genesis account was the scientifically accurate one in this case. well lets put it this way, If the divine being was able to mix some of his own body with the clay, then it means the divine being must have been of a physical nature.Even the bible says that flesh and spirit cannot mix... so the epic of Atrahasis seems to imply a physical god because a spiritual god would not have had anything physical to mix with the clay.The genesis account simply states that a spiritual God formed a physical being from the dust of the ground and blew into his nostrils the breath of life. It says nothign about God mixing any of his own body with the physical body. If you read the bible account you will see that sex had nothing to do with Adam and Eve being thrown out of the garden of eden. Unlike the epic of gilgamesh which portrays sex as something sinful, in the genesis account it wasnt sinfulthat makes a huge difference of belief between the two. Genesis 2 if you want to read it... i can tell you now you'll find nothing in there about sex. Yes this is true and i agree totally. But if you look at all those accounts there is always a fairly high degree of fantasy involved. Gilgamesh himself was a Demigod, he's described as being two-thirds god and one-third man who was on a quest to seek immortality.Again the genesis is not overshadowed by warring dieties but rather its fairly simple in its explaination. 1 God who took action against the violent inhabitants of the earth. Its completely free of the fantasy of other legends.but why would it necessarily mean that one was influenced by the other? Why could both nations not have thought up similar punishments for such crimes? I think you'd have a long way to go before you could prove that the Hebrews were influenced by them.Most nations practiced capital punishement...even today they still do. Do you say that the American govt is influenced by the ancient nations with regards to capital punishment? Seeing the Ancients did it first, they must have been influenced by them.Would you go so far as to say that? Yes they did get those ideas from the surrounding nations. But the writers of the OT were divinely inspired to write, and their writings indicate that worship of such false gods was a sin against their own God.So the religion, which was based on the writings of Moses and the Prophets etc, was NOT influenced by such ideas. It was wholly against such beliefs. This is why we can pick up an OT today and still read about the opposition to such false worship... It remained a part of the religion even if some of the hebrews did otherwise.Its not unlike some professed christians to participate in very unchristian behavior. the hebrews were no different...but the inspiried writers were not influenced the same way because they were being directed by their God. If you think about it, its actually pretty strong evidence of the bibles inspiration. While many of the Hebrews were practicing false worship (even some of the kings & priests) the bible writers were free of such influence.

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2Kings 17:29
However, each different nation came to be a maker of its own god, which they then deposited in the house of the high places that the Samar′itans had made, each different nation, in their cities where they were dwelling. 30And the men of Babylon, for their part, made Suc′coth-be′noth, and the men of Cuth, for their part, made Ner′gal, and the men of Ha′math, for their part, made Ashi′ma. 31As for the Av′vites, they made Nib′haz and Tar′tak; and the Se′pharvites were burning their sons in the fire to Adram′melech and Anam′melech the gods of Sepharva′im.

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The bible is pretty clear when it speaks about the gods of the nations around them....they were created by the people themselves therefore they were not real gods. Yes, they had names and they had methods with which to worship them, but these religions were contrived by the nation i dont know, i dont read german...but in all the tranlsations i have, there is a clear distinction made between God and god. In the preface of the New International Version it says "In regard to the divine name YHWH commonly refered to as the tetragrammaton the translators adopted the device used in most English versions of rendering that name as 'LORD' in capitals to distinguish it from Adonai, another Hebrew word rendered 'Lord' for which small letters are used"
they do the same for GOD because the hebrew text does no use the word 'God' when its talking about the Almighty Creator...it uses the 'Tetragrammaton' (YWHY) thus it is always distinguishable between any other god which is being mentioned. The tetragrammaton appears in the Hebrew text almost 7,000 times... Its the name of the Hebrew God 'Jehovah'im not sure why im saying this, except i guess its how the bible distinguishes between the gods of the nations and the Almighty Creator.

I dont blame you for laughingBut you'd have to admit that all the information contained in the book of Genesis took place prior to Moses’ birth. some of it could have come directly by divine revelation (stages of creation) OR the information had been record early on by those who witnessed it. For instance, how did Moses know of things that pertained to Adam and Eve and the things they said and did in the Garden of Eden? The discussion between Eve and the Serpeant...that information came from somewhere.Another explaination could be that the information could have been passed from Adam to Moses through just five human links, namely, Methuselah, Shem, Isaac, Levi, and Amram. Humans lived for many hundreds of years according to the bible record and if thats the case then the lives of these men overlapped.But then there is also the possibility is that Moses obtained the information from existing writings or documents. This conclusion is based upon the frequent occurrence in Genesis (ten times) of the expression 'these are the generations of,' and once 'this is the book of the generations of.

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Gen5:1 This is the book of Adam’s history. In the day of God’s creating Adam he made him in the likeness of God...

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There is no reason for us to doubt that the people from the earliest times were not interested in an accurate historical record. but this isnt to say that its 100% conclusive as to where Moses got his information from...it could have come from all 3 of the above... the evidence we have indicates that he took some information from written records though... he mentioned records and histories several times. And for all the names in the family lines, there must have been some written record somewhere. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

yes sorry, chpt 3 it is.im always surprised when i hear that people interpret the account in a sexual way. I've studied the bible for the best part of 15yrs and can honestly say that i dont see any sex in it.the key to the issue lies in the serpents words to eve "Is it really so that God said you must not eat from the tree"the issue of right and wrong (good & bad) at that time was purely based on Adam & Eves continued obedience to Gods law. I say LAW and not LAWS because in the garden there was literally only 1 rule to obey...'Dont eat from the 1 tree because it belonged to God and if you do, you will die' ...Now the serpent (satan) challenged this law by inducing eve to take it. When she reply's to the serpents question she says "From all the trees of the garden we may eat but as for the tree of knowlege of good and bad God has said, you must not eat from it that you do not die"then the serpent says " You positively will NOT die...you will become like God"so he contradicted God by telling Eve that she would not die but her situation would improve because she would become LIKE GOD. So now she looked at the tree differently and thought there was something
good in it for her...she ate from it and later on she offered it to her husband.This action put them at odds with God because it was a rejection of his authority. From this point on they became independent from Gods standards and adopted their own way of thinking. Previously they were completely dependent on God for knowledge of what was good and bad, but afterward, they were dependent on their own knowledge of what was good and bad. This is why they saw their nakedness and proceeded to cover up.Where is the sex in that??? Paul clearly shows what brought about sin upon mankind when he says at Romans 5:19"For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were constituted sinners"the 'disobedience' was the Action of Adam turning aside from obeying his God. It had nothing to do with sex. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

as i said though, the account clearly shows that it is in reference to the physical nation of Egypt. So for the Hebrews, it wasnt a religious belief as such. Its got nothing to do with the account of creation which was a religious belief.Ezekiel 32:2'Son of man, lift up a dirge concerning Phar′aoh the king of Egypt, and you must say to him, ‘As a maned young lion of nations you have been silenced.
'And you have been like the marine monster in the seas, and you kept gushing in your rivers and kept muddying the waters with your feet and fouling their rivers.'the above scripture shows again that Pharaoh has been described as such a beast...its a simile...its not a religious teaching about God literally battling with sea monsters.The book of Daniel also describes the various nations as wild beasts because of the way they behave and cause destruction to each other.
After describing such beasts he goes on to explain that "These huge beasts ... are four kings that will stand up from the earth." Daniel 7:17 We could put any sort of meaning to it we choose, but the bible presents its own meaning and I would prefer to accept the bibles own interpretation rather then anything we might fancy up ourselves.the bible is open to interpretation, but that doesnt mean that the interpretation is going to be accurate. Perhaps the bible is NOT open to interpretation but rather it interprets itself...this is how we allow God to speak, its his word and the interpretation should belong to him alone. by this reasoning, we can say that Christians and Muslims are influenced by each other because both believe in a God.Christianity is influenced by the Occult because both worship A diety.All religons are one in the same because all worship a god of one sort or another. So that would make Gilgamesh one of the Nephilim and one of Noahs grandsons...yet the bible account says that all the Nephilim died in the flood waters.Do you see how they are absolutely unrelated. have you taken a step back and asked yourself if perhaps the other legends have been influenced by the Genesis account.If After the flood, the family of Noah spread out in the earth, then the grandchildren of Noah would have known of the story and perhaps as they went their separate ways, the stories developed from what they knew of the actual event... over time the various interpretations get distorted until there are hundreds of conflicting stories.Moses comes along much later and at Gods direction writes an accurate account of what really happened. Tell me if the American govt is influenced by the Iranian government. Both use capital punishment...did america think this up by itself or were they influenced to practice it?You see what i'm trying to get at is that justice is universal. The americans did not have to be influenced by any other nation to determine that for some crimes capital punishment should be administered.One similarity in a law does not mean that the law maker was influenced by another. If we look at the law as a whole, we'd probably find many instances where it is quite different. This thread was about their religious teachings and practices...the debate about which religion is the true religion is not applicable here. Every religion says its the true religion.The hebrews had a religion that was quite different to all others around them, that fact is established. You will need to provide evidence for this statement. The Hebrews were wholly monotheistic, they worshiped 1 God only. It was against their religion to be invovled in the religious practices of the nations around them and when some did get involved they were cut off from the congregation.So if you are unable to show how the writers of the bible promoted polytheism, then your statement is inaccurate and very misleading. No, i dont agree lol.We are not talking about individuals here, we are talking about the 'Teachings' the 'Old Testament Writings' of the Jews. Not some individuals who did involve themselves in the practices of the nations around them.The question you need to focus on is Did the Writers of the OT promote the worship of false gods? Did the Writers promote the mixing of company with the nations around them? Did the Writers ever admit that the false gods of the nations were on equal par with their God?the answer to all these are NO, No and no.They never did because they were NOT influenced by them. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

Im sorry but Psalm 74 is also referring to Egypt as being a sea monster.
Ps 74:13'You yourself stirred up the sea with your own strength; You broke the heads of the sea monsters in the waters.'We can let the bible interpret the meaning of this verse by taking other verses into consideration before drawing a conclusion. As i said, the bible is a Whole and it must be taken as a whole.

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Exodus '21Moses now stretched his hand out over the sea; ...converting the sea basin into dry ground, and the waters were being split apart'

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Nehmiah 9:11'And the sea you split before them, so that they crossed over through the midst of the sea on the dry land; and their pursuers you hurled into the depths like a stone in the strong waters'

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Psalm 78:13'He split the sea, that he might let them pass over,
And he caused the waters to stand like a dam'

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Exodus 14:28'And the waters kept coming back. Finally they covered the war chariots and the cavalrymen belonging to all of Phar′aoh’s military forces and who had gone into the sea after them'

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Isaiah 51:9-10 ' Are you [God] not the one that broke Ra′hab to pieces, that pierced the sea monster? 10Are you not the one that dried up the sea, the waters of the vast deep? The one that made the depths of the sea a way for the repurchased ones to go across?

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Ezekiel 29:3 '...Here I am against you, O Phar′aoh, king of Egypt, the great sea monster lying stretched out in the midst of his Nile canals...'

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Ezekiel 32:2'Son of man, lift up a dirge concerning Phar′aoh the king of Egypt, and you must say to him, ‘As a maned young lion of nations you have been silenced. And you have been like the marine monster in the seas'

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it does make a lot of sense. You may have noticed how the verses from each of those scriptures are talking about the same thing...when you read the context of the verses and you put them together you get a complete picture. When you take the bible as a whole, that means take into consideration ALL the bible books, then they are able to work together to draw the conclusion for you.In this case, the sea and the sea monster is clearly a reference to Moses crossing the Red Sea and their fleeing from the Egyptians. its one thing to say hebrews had similarities to their neighbours, its quite another to say their religion was influenced by them.To be influenced by them they would have adopted their beliefs...this is not the case. The religious teachings and beliefs of the OT are in stark contrast to the other nations.If however you are saying that the hebrews themselves (Aside from their religion & beleifs and teachings) was influenced to follow the nations around them, then sure, many of them were and did. And as i said, the OT has plenty of examples were this was the case.But those who WROTE the OT, were not influenced by them. The OT does not contain promotion or teaching of pagan religious practices and right at the outset i thought i had made clear that were were talking about the OT as being the evidence for this thread. Gilgamesh was a Demi God. The account specifies this. If Gilgamesh was a demigod, it means he was part god. The only ones in the genesis account who were 'part-god' were the Nephilim. They were the offspring of the Angels who had relationships with women. Now if the account of Gilgamesh is true, then he being a demi god implies that he must have been one of the nephilim becasue After the flood, all the Nephalim had perished.This makes the Gilgamesh account completely different to the genesis account which specifically says that all demi-gods (Nephilim) perished in the flood waters.Therefore the genesis account cannot possibly be related to the gilgamesh account. i've studied it long enough to be convinced that the bible really is an inspired book. To assume it is not before giving it a chance sounds defeatist to me, but each to their own. Exodus does mention 'other gods' but it does not equate to polytheism.
If you take the bible as a whole and look at other writers and see what they wrote about these things, you will notice that the belief/teaching in the OT is that the nations gods are 'valueless' 'fake' 'man made' 'not real'this means they did not view those nations gods are 'Alive'
to the writers of the OT, they were nothing more then man made idolsTell me how this equates to a polytheistic religion?

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Isiah 44:15 'And it has become [something] for man to keep a fire burning. So he takes part of it that he may warm himself...He also works on a god to which he may bow down. He has made it into a carved image, and he prostrates himself to it... He prostrates himself to it and bows down and prays to it and says: "Deliver me, for you are my god".

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Jerimiah 10:14 'Every man has behaved so unreasoningly as not to know. Every metalworker will certainly feel shame because of the carved image; for his molten image is a falsehood, and there is no spirit in them. 15 They are vanity, a work of mockery.'

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Habakkuk 2:18 'Of what benefit has a carved image been, when the former of it has carved it, a molten statue, and an instructor in falsehood? when the former of its form has trusted in it, to the extent of making valueless gods that are speechless?'

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Psalm 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold,
The work of the hands of earthling man.
5 A mouth they have, but they cannot speak;
Eyes they have, but they cannot see;
6 Ears they have, but they cannot hear.
A nose they have, but they cannot smell.
7 Hands are theirs, but they cannot feel.
Feet are theirs, but they cannot walk;
They utter no sound with their throat.
8 Those making them will become just like them,
All those who are trusting in them.

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Asherah was never a part of the OT religion. When they stopped their worship of Yahweh then they got involved in pagan worship.But the writings in the OT never changed. If the writers were influenced in the same way as some of the people were, then we would have an OT that promoted polytheism... but we dont. The OT has not changed in thousands of years and this is evidence in itself that the religion of the Hebrews did not fall under the influence of the pagan nations.

My dilema is that i dont believe it can be claimed with any degree of certainty that the bible writer took the legend of the flood from existing accounts