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Author Topic:   What is the benefit of ID.
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 6 of 42 (502223)
03-10-2009 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by robert4818
12-11-2008 5:50 PM


The Benefit of ID
I can only see one slightly possible benefit of ID - the freedom of resources for other inquiries.
If...
(I need to take a second, this is pretty much the biggest "if" ever proposed by anyone, anywhere. Simple bolding, italicizing or increased font is not enough to stress how unimaginably large this "if" really is. Even this paragraph doesn't do this "if" justice in the unfathomable depths of its shadow)
...if ID can and is shown to be correct, no one would have to spend any more resources on trying to figure out "how all this works." Scientists could then all lay down their pencils and microscopes and shovels and telescopes. Grant money could all be stopped. The final answer on exactly how everything actually works would be known and there would be no further need for continued exploration into the subject.
That's all I can think of, anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by robert4818, posted 12-11-2008 5:50 PM robert4818 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by hari, posted 03-10-2009 1:12 PM Stile has replied
 Message 9 by Peg, posted 03-11-2009 4:49 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 8 of 42 (502251)
03-10-2009 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by hari
03-10-2009 1:12 PM


Re: The Benefit of ID
Heh
hari writes:
The denouement goes back to the ‘80s and reveals that the inventors of ID were actually a group of Baptist students (I'm a Baptist) pulling a prank that got out of hand.
I thought you were going to say it was actually invented by a group of atheists with the known intent of having "all religions finally die out."

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 Message 7 by hari, posted 03-10-2009 1:12 PM hari has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 14 of 42 (502335)
03-11-2009 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Peg
03-11-2009 4:49 AM


Re: The Benefit of ID
Peg writes:
Stile writes:
if ID can and is shown to be correct, no one would have to spend any more resources on trying to figure out "how all this works."
but why would everything have to stop?
I answered that question with the part you quoted. If "how all this works" is equal to "God, as explained through ID," then there is nothing more to find. That is the "how." Everything would have to stop because there's nothing left to find. I suppose you could continue to search for an answer after you've already found it, but that seems really silly. Like continuing to look under the couch for your lost keys, even when you already know they're in your pocket. I'm just assuming that scientists are not insane.
Peg writes:
Stile writes:
Scientists could then all lay down their pencils and microscopes and shovels and telescopes. Grant money could all be stopped.
why would acknowledgment of ID mean scientists would all have to stop working?
I'm sorry, I got a bit carried away with my use of the word "all." I did not mean all scientists doing work on anything at all. I only meant all scientists who are currently doing work on the subjects that the proponents of ID say their theory explains through God (or "the designer").
Those resources could all be spent on other inquiries. Perhaps even other scientific inquiries.
So, if ID can and is shown to be correct, then those scientists working on the alternate secular explanations for those same subjects can all stop. Or, at least, move on to something else that is unrelated to "the theory" of ID (whatever that is...).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Peg, posted 03-11-2009 4:49 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Peg, posted 03-12-2009 7:34 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 25 of 42 (502541)
03-12-2009 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Peg
03-12-2009 7:34 AM


Re: The Benefit of ID
Peg writes:
Lets say i want to know how to make a cake. I see a cake on the bench and mum says 'I made that cake'
I still want to know HOW she made it. Its not going to stop me from wanting to know how, just because i know she made it.
Its the same with nature. Just because we may know that God made these things, does not mean we are not interested in how he made them.
I agree with you. But this has nothing to do with ID.
The ID people are saying that their explanation is "how your mom made the cake."
So, if ID can and is shown to be true, then we'll already know "how the cake was made" and there will be nothing left to pursue.
I don't think your quarral is with me.
I think your quarral is with the ID people who claim that their idea shows "how the cake was made."
Obviously, if the ID people aren't claiming this, they wouldn't have any problem with science continuing it's work. But they do have such a problem. Perhaps you don't... but other "ID" people certainly do. Your quarral is likely with telling those people that they don't know what they're talking about. Which is what science has been trying to tell them for 80+ years now. But good luck to you
that sounds like a fantastic idea. Perhaps they could work on more important issues like a cure for cancer, cure for aids, fixing the worlds food shortage crisis, developing clean technologies so industry can stop burning fossil fuels and the list goes on and on
lets spend more time on important issues i say
Um... I think you forgot this part:
Message 6
Stile writes:
If...
(I need to take a second, this is pretty much the biggest "if" ever proposed by anyone, anywhere. Simple bolding, italicizing or increased font is not enough to stress how unimaginably large this "if" really is. Even this paragraph doesn't do this "if" justice in the unfathomable depths of its shadow)
...if ID can and is shown to be correct...
That's a really big "if" we need to get past first. As long as that "if" is not realized... then these secular resources are being spent on "important issues" that have a very high chance of leading to helpful discoveries in the exact areas you mentioned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Peg, posted 03-12-2009 7:34 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Peg, posted 03-12-2009 8:23 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 28 of 42 (502546)
03-12-2009 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Peg
03-12-2009 8:06 AM


Another Benefit?
Peg writes:
For a person of faith, it doesnt really matter how he made things, only that he did make them.
I would simply change the word "doesn't" to "shouldn't."
I agree with you, but there certainly are a great many "people of faith" that think such a thing really does matter a great deal. (For reasons that I wish I could understand).
Giving credit where credit is due is the all important thing in my opinion.
I agree completely.
I'm still trying to figure out where, exactly, the credit is due. It may be due to no one. It may be due to God... but there's nothing unequivically pointing in God's direction for this.
however, i doubt that God would want us to stop wondering... it seems he made us with the ability to also create things and therefore my guess is that our sense of curiosity will always win over and we will always search for the answers.
I think he would want it that way.
Again, I agree completely. If God doesn't want us to stop wondering, then He is a worthy God indeed. Especially if He also gave us our curious brains and stuff.
Sometimes I wonder if God's greatest "test of life" is to see if it's possible for some of us to not believe in Him, and still find the strength to follow all the important virtues He stands for.
One who believes and follows the virtures requires strength.
One who doesn't beleive and yet still follows the virtures requires even more strength.
The important part, of course, would be to "follow the virtues." So there wouldn't be any reward or intended path or anything like that.
It would just be nice if, at the end of it all, someone was there to say "hey, nice job."
Of course, that may just be my pride talking... in which case, I'm not following the virtues
Perhaps that's one more practical, existing benefit of ID. Maybe its benefit is to show a path that is definitely the wrong route. It doesn't quite give us a guide, but one less piece of hay makes it slightly easier to find the needle.
Edited by Stile, : Removed an awfully confusing double negative

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Peg, posted 03-12-2009 8:06 AM Peg has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 29 of 42 (502547)
03-12-2009 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Peg
03-12-2009 8:23 AM


Re: The Benefit of ID
Peg writes:
they must have an agenda...anyone know what that might be?
Yes, we have a pretty good clue
Apparently, their agenda is to "get everyone to act exactly like they do." For some reason that's incredibly important to them. So important that they'll try deception in order to get into schools so they can reach a multitude of young-minds for the only purpose of "getting more people to act exactly like they do."
No one has a problem with religion.
People just have a problem with other folk who think they're entitled to a bit too much control.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Peg, posted 03-12-2009 8:23 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Peg, posted 03-12-2009 8:39 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 32 of 42 (502552)
03-12-2009 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Peg
03-12-2009 8:39 AM


Intellignet Design People and Actions
Peg writes:
how do they act?
ps. i dont think we have ID people here in australia...i've never met one anyway.
A very good question. I didn't realize someone didn't know
I'm sorry, it's just that with the general population of a forum such as this, "Intelligent Design" is a rather common-place term. I've re-read my posts and see that I've been really rather vague on it.
I will attempt to explain, but here it is a bit too far off-topic.
I'll create a new topic, and link to it when (if?) it's promoted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Peg, posted 03-12-2009 8:39 AM Peg has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 33 of 42 (502560)
03-12-2009 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Peg
03-12-2009 8:39 AM


Link to new topic
As promised, see here for what will hopefully be a lively discussion on how ID folk act. Or, at least, those who propose and support ID as an explanation of certain aspects of this universe:
Message 1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Peg, posted 03-12-2009 8:39 AM Peg has not replied

  
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