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Author Topic:   Creation science II
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 40 of 312 (501951)
03-08-2009 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Kelly
03-08-2009 8:37 PM


Re: I think it makes sense
Hi Kelly,
Kelly writes:
I think it makes sense that those who adhere to creation science would be Christians by the majority.
Actually anyone that does not believe the universe is eternal in existence believes in creation science.
The universe has always existed or it came into existence.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Kelly, posted 03-08-2009 8:37 PM Kelly has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by NosyNed, posted 03-08-2009 9:27 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 42 of 312 (501958)
03-08-2009 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by NosyNed
03-08-2009 9:27 PM


Re: defining terms
Hi Ned,
NoseyNed writes:
If you use CS as you are then what do we call the fundamentalists who want the Bible taught in public schools and are willing to lie to get by constitutional limits?
Most of what you call fundamentalists I would call false prophets.
Now as far as those who want the Bible taught in public schools I would probably call them idiots.
If they belong to a True New Testament Church they need to teach the Bible in their churches instead of substituting their worldly programs.
I have never advocated the Bible be taught in public schools.
The Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is the only institution that has the authority to preach, or teach the Word of God.
Secular man is not qualified to teach God's Word.
End of rant.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by NosyNed, posted 03-08-2009 9:27 PM NosyNed has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 156 of 312 (502374)
03-11-2009 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by NosyNed
03-11-2009 10:32 AM


Re: Creastion Science -- details
Hi Ned,
NoseyNed writes:
So CS says life was created suddenly in a number of distinct forms? Yes?
I don't know what CS says but the Bible teaches me that there was more than one time.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by NosyNed, posted 03-11-2009 10:32 AM NosyNed has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 159 of 312 (502381)
03-11-2009 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Stile
03-11-2009 10:58 AM


Re: Is it Science?
Hi Stile,
Stile writes:
Any and all scientists (those who do not allow their world-view to corrupt their conclusions) all agree with the exact same answer -> Evolution. They all agree that creation science is not science. They all agree that creation science is not science because it allows its world view to corrupt its conclusions.
Upon what do you base this assertion?
I want to analyze this statement and you can correct me if I am misunderstanding you.
All scientist agree with the same exact answer -> Evolution.
If a scientist don't agree with this group they are not a scientist as they are letting their world view corrupt their conclusions.
Is this what you are saying?
Could it possibly be that they look at the same information and come to different conclusions?
Stile writes:
But that's just it. We are all on equal-footing to start with.
And, yes, creationists do experiments, testing and studying.
But that's where the similarities end.
Creationists then add in the additional information from their world view to skew their findings into a particular conclusion.
So you are saying these scientist who believe in creation do scientific experiments studying and testing. Just like the real scientist.
But since they don't reach the same conclusion their conclusion is tainted by their world view.
But on the other hand the scientist that does not believe in creation is immune to his/her world view affecting his/her conclusions.
Is that what you are saying?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Stile, posted 03-11-2009 10:58 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Stile, posted 03-11-2009 12:09 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 164 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-11-2009 12:11 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 170 by dwise1, posted 03-11-2009 12:39 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 190 of 312 (502461)
03-11-2009 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Stile
03-11-2009 12:09 PM


Re: Is it Science?
Hi Stile,
Stile writes:
Two people can start with the same information (2+2) and end up with differing conclusions (4 or say... 5). But one of them is wrong.
They could both be wrong also.
Stile writes:
So you are saying these scientist who believe in creation do scientific experiments studying and testing. Just like the real scientist.
You really got this from what I said? That's pretty much the opposite of what I said.
Well yes. But you concluded their experiments were tainted with their world view. I don't know how you could determine that without being a mind reader.
Stile writes:
But on the other hand the scientist that does not believe in creation is immune to his/her world view affecting his/her conclusions.
Where do you get this stuff?
That's not what I said.
I said that "doing science" is when you control and ensure that your world view does not affect your conclusions.
You said in Message 181
Stile writes:
And, yes, creationists do experiments, testing and studying.
But that's where the similarities end.
Creationists then add in the additional information from their world view to skew their findings into a particular conclusion.
Science doesn't do that.
You said they do experiments, testing and studying.
Then you asserted they add in the additional information from their world view which taints their conclusion.
Then you assert science does not do that.
The only man that does not let his world view effect his thinking and findings is a dead man.
In Message 168 you state: "Little Dogs to Big Horses"
How about little horses to BIG horses as in my avatar?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Stile, posted 03-11-2009 12:09 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Capt Stormfield, posted 03-11-2009 4:54 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 201 by Taq, posted 03-11-2009 6:07 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 215 by Stile, posted 03-12-2009 7:55 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 247 of 312 (502613)
03-12-2009 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Stile
03-12-2009 7:55 AM


Re: Show it, don't say it.
Hi Stile,
Stile writes:
Or, are you going to argue that this is incorrect?
Why would I argue that if somebody had two marbles in one hand and two marbles in the other hand and he put them all in one hand that he would not have four marbles in one hand?
Stile writes:
That's the entire purpose of science. To phrase questions and make progress in such a way that it is insane to argue against. Because it simply must be.
You mean like my statement.
The universe has always existed in some form or it began to exist?
Stile writes:
I didn't read their minds. I read their statements. I'm sure you've heard of the Wedge Document where they clearly state that their world view is going to be influencing their conclusions.
Only here on EvC have I heard about the Wedge Document. I don't care anything about it.
It is not my Bible.
I did read a lot of Dawkins statements of his world view.
Stile writes:
This is quite easily shown to be false.
Stile says:
quote:
Using standard mathematics (and anything greater than a base-4 system): 2+2=4
But you did not give the base system either was using.
This is what you said.
Stile writes:
Two people can start with the same information (2+2) and end up with differing conclusions (4 or say... 5). But one of them is wrong.
But if you take 4 quarts of water and pour them into a gallon jug which holds four quarts.
You do not have 4 quarts of water in the gallon jug.
Stile writes:
All I said was that the transitional fossils I linked to show a very clear and obvious progression from the picture I showed to modern day horses.
But with the new revised progression by the National Museum they don't show an obvious clear progression.
Source
Stile writes:
Phooey. All I was hoping for was honest discussion... better luck next creation scientist, I suppose.
You must have missed my post in Message 42 where I was responding to Ned, concerning what I thought about CS fundamentalists.
I am not fond of those who preach CS or ID. In fact I think they have done God a great disservice as I think many churches have.
But when 2 scientist, one believing in evolution and one creation look at the same evidence and come to different conclusions, who is to say which one is correct, or if either is correct?
There are many great scientist of the past that because of their world view came to conclusions that we now know was wrong.
But you want to exempt today's scientist of the possibility of being wrong.
The day could come when everything we consider as almost a proven fact is overturned, then what?
Like this quote from Richard Dawkins.
quote:
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Stile, posted 03-12-2009 7:55 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Taq, posted 03-12-2009 3:07 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 257 by Stile, posted 03-12-2009 3:40 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 261 of 312 (502639)
03-12-2009 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Taq
03-12-2009 3:07 PM


Re: Show it, don't say it.
Hi Taq,
Taq writes:
The evidence says.
But the evidence is not known for a thousand years after their experiment is completed.
As some of those scientist of 2000 years ago and even a 1000 years ago have been proven to be wrong in the last 200 years.
I have been told on this forum there is no such thing as a scientific fact.
Everything is tenative and can be proven wrong.
Today we have 3 pretty smart men that can not agree on how the universe began if it did.
One of those may be correct or they all may be wrong.
None of them are creation scientist.
Taq writes:
Going back to your marble experiment . . .
But I did not have a marble experiment.
I made a statement I would not argue with.
Then I laid out the statement.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Taq, posted 03-12-2009 3:07 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Taq, posted 03-12-2009 4:19 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 265 of 312 (502646)
03-12-2009 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Stile
03-12-2009 3:40 PM


Re: The on-topic stuff
Hi Stile,
Stile writes:
I understand this is the Free for All forum, so you don't have to remain on topic. But that still doesn't mean I have to reply to any of the off-topic stuff.
I thought we were talking about how conclusions from evidence was reached by creation scientist and non creationist scientist.
Well if your 2 + 2 = 4 was on topic then my 4 quarts of water poured into a gallon jug was just as on topic.
Care to speculate how much water you would have in the gallon jug that will hold 4 quarts of water.
You can even put the 4 quarts into two half gallon jug's making sure there is exactly 2 quarts in each.
Then pour them into the gallon jug.
You will not have 4 quarts of water in the gallon jug.
The same thing happens when two scientist examine the same evidence of an experiment and come to different conclusions.
It makes no difference whether the scientist is creationist, theist, atheist, or agnostic.
Their world view has an effect on how they interpet the evidence.
Stile writes:
Reality.
But what if reality is not known for another thousand years?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Stile, posted 03-12-2009 3:40 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Taq, posted 03-12-2009 4:25 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 268 of 312 (502649)
03-12-2009 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Taq
03-12-2009 4:19 PM


Re: Show it, don't say it.
Hi Taq,
Taq writes:
The evidence is here, right now. All evidence is created in the past, be it seconds or millenia.
And some may not be known for a thousand years or more.
Or are you saying everything that is put forth as theory is fact?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Taq, posted 03-12-2009 4:19 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Taq, posted 03-12-2009 4:34 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 272 of 312 (502653)
03-12-2009 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by Taq
03-12-2009 4:25 PM


Re: The on-topic stuff
Hi Taq,
Taq writes:
Of course you won't have 4 quarts. You will have 6 quarts, and God makes the other two disappear to make it seem like there are 4 quarts of volume in the gallon jug. This is a proper conclusion, is it not?
Scientifically you will have 4 quarts of water minus the amount of water that evaporated while you was pouring the water.
The longer the jug is open the more water will evaporate.
Thus proving scientifically that 2 +2 does not always equal 4.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Taq, posted 03-12-2009 4:25 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by Taq, posted 03-12-2009 4:38 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 277 of 312 (502658)
03-12-2009 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Taq
03-12-2009 4:34 PM


Re: Show it, don't say it.
Hi Taq,
Taq writes:
I am saying that everything put forward as fact is explained by theories. Facts and theories are separate things. Facts do not become theories, and theories do not become facts. Without theories our facts would resemble a stamp collection. Each fact would exist in it's own universe without us being able to relate them to other facts.
But when it comes to evolution and creation there are very few facts.
There are a lot of hypothesis that have been called theories but very few facts to back up anything.
That is the reason the creation scientist and the non creation scientist come to different conclusion looking at the same evidence.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Taq, posted 03-12-2009 4:34 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Taq, posted 03-12-2009 4:48 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 280 by Modulous, posted 03-12-2009 5:06 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 281 by Coyote, posted 03-12-2009 5:09 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 309 of 312 (502705)
03-12-2009 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by Sky-Writing
03-12-2009 6:17 PM


Re: Accomplished What?
Hi Sky,
Welcome to EvC,
I don't want to get to far in your dog house but:
Sky writes:
My disdain is for branches of "Science", who produce nothing of value to humans. Like the idea that organic mud is my source of life. Mud should taste better then at least. And look nicer on ones face.
Genesis 2:7 says, "man was formed from the dust of the ground".
Genesis 2:19 says, "And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air".
I guess that means everything has a common ancestor.
But no need to pay any attention to the old Bible thumper.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-12-2009 6:17 PM Sky-Writing has not replied

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