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Author Topic:   Creation science II
Stagamancer
Member (Idle past 4935 days)
Posts: 174
From: Oregon
Joined: 12-28-2008


Message 282 of 312 (502672)
03-12-2009 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Sky-Writing
03-12-2009 4:13 PM


Re: Accomplished What?
-Sky- writes:
The answer is that ANY theory so foundational to the development of life should have BILLIONS of trees and fossil series. Horse Series, Fish series, whale series, shark series, turtle series,,,etc, etc.
Except for the whole part about how fossils form. Because the conditions required for the formation of fossils are quite specific, the types of fossils we find are quite skewed to mostly just the hard parts of marine organisms. So, because we understand the process of fossilization, we can predict that fossils are going to be hard to come by, but of course, not impossible.
Skip those last two. Even Science admits that sharks and turtles east Darwin theories for breakfast.
Um, who's ever admitted that? Are you going to use sponges, hagfish, and bacteria against the theory of evolution too? Some strategies work, and there's nothing driving them to change. That doesn't mean evolution is not happening.
I have 2 decades of firsthand experience in scientific research. Seen with eyes, felt with hands, burn marks, watched people die kind of experience. I know what goes on in R&D. Whatever the boss wants or/and the customer is paying for.
And how much of this R&D has been in the academic realm? Because, I assure you, there's absolutely no benefit to conforming to the "norm", and there's no consumer to satisfy. In fact, according to your "scheming, results driven scientist" view, you would expect these tinkering researchers to fudge their results so that they disprove evolution. Because anyone who could present solid evidence refuting evolution by natural selection would receive incredible acclaim. In fact, when Darwin first came out with his theory, that's exactly what they did. For a long time, researchers tried to show that it was some other process besides natural selection that drove the evolution of adaptations. But in the end, they had to conclude, based on independent results (not a conspiracy) that Darwin was correct.
Scientists are not defending evolution because they hate creationists or because they think Darwin was a swell guy. In the same vein, physicists are finding that Einstein was wrong about the locality of the universe, but they're not changing their results just because Einstein was a revolutionary and well respected scientist. The only people who feel they have something to lose by changing their world views are the creationists (note this is creationists specifically, and not all religious types).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-12-2009 4:13 PM Sky-Writing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-12-2009 5:35 PM Stagamancer has not replied
 Message 286 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-12-2009 5:49 PM Stagamancer has replied

Stagamancer
Member (Idle past 4935 days)
Posts: 174
From: Oregon
Joined: 12-28-2008


Message 296 of 312 (502691)
03-12-2009 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by Sky-Writing
03-12-2009 6:17 PM


Re: Accomplished What?
Never heard of [ring species]. So it doesn't qualify as "All pervasive, blatant, or clearly foundational" then does it.
Your ignorance does not make ring species any less pervasive, blatant, or clearly foundational. If you look through the scientific literature, you will find just how pervasive the examples are, and how much they influence evolutionary theory.
a salamander has a lot of natural variation built into it's DNA that it will evolve into some other creature given enough stress in it's life.
individuals do not evolve
My disdain is for branches of "Science", who produce nothing of value to humans. Like the idea that organic mud is my source of life. Mud should taste better then at least. And look nicer on ones face.
Who are you to pass judgement on the value of a whole branch of science? Maybe you should look into how the individual research papers have influenced others. You're like Bobby Jindal mocking volcano monitoring.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-12-2009 6:17 PM Sky-Writing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-12-2009 6:51 PM Stagamancer has replied

Stagamancer
Member (Idle past 4935 days)
Posts: 174
From: Oregon
Joined: 12-28-2008


Message 298 of 312 (502694)
03-12-2009 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Sky-Writing
03-12-2009 5:49 PM


Re: Accomplished What?
No, [scientists] see natural selection as a fact of nature and try to justify it's existence because it's so inherently cruel.
So scientists are just a bunch of sadistic asses that revel in the destruction of the weak? I think you'll find many who feel quite the opposite.
Once they have built this God-Principal they spend the rest of their lives trying to justify it's existence and enthrone it as a deity.
Once again, who IS they? There is no evolution conspiracy. If I come across ANY evidence disproving evolution by natural selection in my research, you can bet I will publish, publish, publish, and then you can clap as I receive my Nobel prize. I am not the only one who would do this either. However, until I find this type of evidence, or someone else does, I and the rest of the scientific community will accept evolution as a fact, and evolution by natural selection as a valid theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-12-2009 5:49 PM Sky-Writing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-12-2009 7:01 PM Stagamancer has not replied

Stagamancer
Member (Idle past 4935 days)
Posts: 174
From: Oregon
Joined: 12-28-2008


Message 300 of 312 (502696)
03-12-2009 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by Sky-Writing
03-12-2009 6:39 PM


Re: Accomplished What?
Darwins branches on the tree will ALL have separate sources with no branching at all. Take a sideways slice through every branch. That's the direction real science and DNA is taking us.
Do you have any sources that show this? With sequence data and phylogenetic trees?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-12-2009 6:39 PM Sky-Writing has not replied

Stagamancer
Member (Idle past 4935 days)
Posts: 174
From: Oregon
Joined: 12-28-2008


Message 303 of 312 (502699)
03-12-2009 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 299 by Sky-Writing
03-12-2009 6:51 PM


Re: Accomplished What?
For proof, you suggest no actual benefits...because you can't think of any.
Knowing how evolution occurs is very important to humans in terms of disease. In case you hadn't noticed, antibiotics are working so well as they used to against many horrific diseases. This is also important for agriculture. It is very important to know the conditions in which host switching occurs, to know if, for example, a parasitic insect will switch from one crop species to another. Occasionally this switch also allows for speciation to occur. NCBI
There are many more I could talk about. But just because YOU can't see the value doesn't mean it's not there.
Why does every state in the union have laws that separate humans from animals? Because we aren't.
While completely irrelevant, I'd like to point out that we have laws separating us from animals, not because of a genetic difference, but because of a cultural and facultative difference. Animals are not active members of our society, they are only apart of our society when we make them apart of it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-12-2009 6:51 PM Sky-Writing has not replied

Stagamancer
Member (Idle past 4935 days)
Posts: 174
From: Oregon
Joined: 12-28-2008


Message 311 of 312 (502707)
03-12-2009 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 310 by Sky-Writing
03-12-2009 7:21 PM


Re: Accomplished What?
"Creation Science" is no more or less faith based than the religious creeds I left behind in that one chapter in H.S. biology class covering Darwin's Evolution.
Perhaps the fact your only investigation into evolution is a single chapter in a textbook is the reason you can't understand the evidence, and continue to claim it's all faith based. Try reading some scientific papers.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-12-2009 7:21 PM Sky-Writing has not replied

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